Do you believe in God?

[alicefaye123 10]

ahem, *cough cough*, not all other religions. Buddhism specifically tells us not to ask such questions about God and the origins of the universe because they are surplus to requirement. Maybe 'theistic religions' would have been a better choice of words

 

Well ill probably use that phrase "theistic religion" in future debates, to be honest i've never used that word. and come ot think of it you're right on the whole buddhism thing-i-ma-bob.

[Ryedo40 10]

Maybe to you the bible has an answer. but! it is not proof.

 

...

 

when i have asked people how can you proove that god exists they usually say something along the lines of " well you just have to have faith" faith is a believe not proof.

 

i could make up my own religion.. for example. a red cabbage created our whole world and our universe and somebody wrote a book about the red cabbage creating everything. people would ask.. well how do you know the red cabbage created us and everything... and i would say. well you have to have faith!!!!!!

 

 

Yes, the faith card is usually played to get out of an awkward position. Most don't even realise that by playing that card they've lost any credibility.

[Snowbird 10]

Have you read the Epic of Gilgamesh? The flood happened. It is documented. If you choose to believe that your god wiped out every living thing because he was having a hissy fit and then gave us rainbows to say sorry, then just keep away from me.

 

I do not choose to believe God wiped out every little thing because he was having a hissy fit. I think he realised he'd made a a fatal mistake trusting humanity to use the brain he gave them in the way he'd intended and decided to start again!!

Honestly I think in those days as someone on here said people did not have scientific knowledge to make informed decisions about things so came up with idea's that made sense to them at the time. We are all bounded by known concepts of what we think we know at the time!!

[JFKvsNixon 11]

I do not choose to believe God wiped out every little thing because he was having a hissy fit. I think he realised he'd made a a fatal mistake trusting humanity to use the brain he gave them in the way he'd intended and decided to start again!!

Honestly I think in those days as someone on here said people did not have scientific knowledge to make informed decisions about things so came up with idea's that made sense to them at the time. We are all bounded by known concepts of what we think we know at the time!!

 

So how many people did God murder when he decided to start again? Also I thought God was omnipotent, so surely he could have foreseen what happened and made us humans in such a way that he didn't have to murder every last one of us bar two.

[Snowbird 10]

He didn't. He gave us rainbows to remind himself not to do it again, which seems to suggest that the Abrahamic God is prone to forgetfulness.

 

Sorry to burst your cosmic bubble but he didn't do any such thing. Its all to do with the colours which make up white light being refracted and reflected through water droplets in the atmosphere--!

[PaliRichard 10]

Sorry to burst your cosmic bubble but he didn't do any such thing. Its all to do with the colours which make up white light being refracted and reflected through water droplets in the atmosphere--!

 

That's not what the Bible says.

 

What about my earlier points/questions ' Firstly it wasn't a world wide flood so the moral of the Bible story is somewhat irrelevant.

 

Secondly if you acknowledge it is based on an earlierstory isn'titalso true that other Biblical episodes could also be 'borrowed'? If this is the case how do you seperate what you are told in the Bible from what could easilybestylized or fictional stories?

 

How, in other words, does the believerdistinguish between thefact and the fiction of the Bible?'

 

If you're acknowledging God, but picking and choosing from the Bible the bits you like what criteria are you using for those choices?

[esme 10]

I do not choose to believe God wiped out every little thing because he was having a hissy fit. I think he realised he'd made a a fatal mistake trusting humanity to use the brain he gave them in the way he'd intended and decided to start again!!

Honestly I think in those days as someone on here said people did not have scientific knowledge to make informed decisions about things so came up with idea's that made sense to them at the time. We are all bounded by known concepts of what we think we know at the time!!

Pardon ?

 

As far as I'm aware the popular view amongst theists is that god doesn't make mistakes.

 

Omnipotent, omnipresent & omniscient with the last one being the key point here, omniscient means knowing everything, including what is going to happen, despite "free will", for the entirety of existence.

 

God would have known from the instant of creation that humanity would use it's brain in a way other than intended and therefore the flood was pre ordained and could not be avoided.

 

But that also begs the question of why bring a flood, I mean it's not like the people could do anything to avoid it as it was known it would be necessary from the instant of creation, so from the instant of creation those people were going to drown and die a horrible death.

 

Oh sorry I was forgetting ineffable, god created everything and then sent a flood to wipe out a sizeable chunk of it for reasons that can only be understood by god.

 

Seems a lot of effort, why bother creating all those people in the first place, why not just create noah and family and give them the memories of a biblical flood, that would be a lot easier and fewer people would suffer and die.

[Snowbird 10]

Sorry, I didn't realise that was your position, my apologies.

 

I disagree that it means that it lends credance to the Biblical account though.

 

Firstly it wasn't a world wide flood so the moral of the Bible story is somewhat irrelevant.

 

Secondly if you acknowledge it is based on an earlier story isn't it also true that other Biblical episodes could also be 'borrowed'? If this is the case how do you seperate what you are told in the Bible from what could easily be stylized or fictional stories?

 

How, in other words, does the believer distinguish between the fact and the fiction of the Bible?

 

I'm not taking the Mic btw, I'm genuinely interested.

It may well have seemed like the whole world had gone, to the people who experienced the aftermath of the flood don't you think? Even then men were so conviced of their own importance that it seems likely he would have to find someone to blame for his misfortune. After all God had given him a perfect world to live in , designed just for his convienience so it could not just go belly up unless someone, somewhere had done something really bad to deserve it!

Is there a likelihood that the writers of the bible had already read fictionalised stories of the flood? I don't know. Its possible they wanted to put their own slant on it, or its possible more than one person could have had similar thoughts about it.

How does a believer distinguish truth from fiction-- ah! To start with not a lot do! Many are fed bible stories all their lives and accept it without question because everyone else around them believes it and wiser men than they at some synodd or other decided they had to believe it or be condemned to the fiery pit!

Personally I just use common sense and logic. Jesus lived on earth, people who knew him wrote about him at the time. What he said made sense. He said God was good and wanted us to love each other. He forgave prostitutes and thieves and turned away from violence and retribution. Yet if you look in the old testament you are faced with a whole different kettle of fish.

A God who would punish innocent children for the sin of their fathers, who turned people to salt for being curious, who invoked war and divided families by showing favouritism to one over another of his so called children! That doesn't sound very divine to me!

[Snowbird 10]

So how many people did God murder when he decided to start again? Also I thought God was omnipotent, so surely he could have foreseen what happened and made us humans in such a way that he didn't have to murder every last one of us bar two.

 

How many? - like you said all bar two--- If you believe what the bible says--.and according to Genesis-- he did make man perfect and in his own image etc etc---just like we have kids in ours in the vain hope they'll turn out the way we want them to! To do what you suggest he would have had to make aotomatons not human beings!

[Snowbird 10]

Pardon ?

 

As far as I'm aware the popular view amongst theists is that god doesn't make mistakes.

 

Omnipotent, omnipresent & omniscient with the last one being the key point here, omniscient means knowing everything, including what is going to happen, despite "free will", for the entirety of existence.

 

God would have known from the instant of creation that humanity would use it's brain in a way other than intended and therefore the flood was pre ordained and could not be avoided.

 

But that also begs the question of why bring a flood, I mean it's not like the people could do anything to avoid it as it was known it would be necessary from the instant of creation, so from the instant of creation those people were going to drown and die a horrible death.

 

Oh sorry I was forgetting ineffable, god created everything and then sent a flood to wipe out a sizeable chunk of it for reasons that can only be understood by god.

 

Seems a lot of effort, why bother creating all those people in the first place, why not just create noah and family and give them the memories of a biblical flood, that would be a lot easier and fewer people would suffer and die.

 

You've answered your own question! God is greater than us and would not have done these things- ergo it didn't happen like that!!

[MrSmith 10]

Pardon ?

 

As far as I'm aware the popular view amongst theists is that god doesn't make mistakes.

 

Omnipotent, omnipresent & omniscient with the last one being the key point here, omniscient means knowing everything, including what is going to happen, despite "free will", for the entirety of existence.

 

God would have known from the instant of creation that humanity would use it's brain in a way other than intended and therefore the flood was pre ordained and could not be avoided.

 

But that also begs the question of why bring a flood, I mean it's not like the people could do anything to avoid it as it was known it would be necessary from the instant of creation, so from the instant of creation those people were going to drown and die a horrible death.

 

Oh sorry I was forgetting ineffable, god created everything and then sent a flood to wipe out a sizeable chunk of it for reasons that can only be understood by god.

 

Seems a lot of effort, why bother creating all those people in the first place, why not just create noah and family and give them the memories of a biblical flood, that would be a lot easier and fewer people would suffer and die.

 

Because there wouldn’t have been much entertainment value in it for God.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

How many? - like you said all bar two--- If you believe what the bible says--.and according to Genesis-- he did make man perfect and in his own image etc etc---just like we have kids in ours in the vain hope they'll turn out the way we want them to! To do what you suggest he would have had to make aotomatons not human beings!

 

So are you saying that God isn't all powerful, and he couldn't foresee what would happen to us humans? Also what would you think of a parent that murdered his children all because he didn't like the way they turned out?