viney40 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Just quickly, religion is about self. Christianity is about denial of self. . Just slowly, d a f t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Which is the greatest of crimes. Come on epiphany, I want an explanation. Which is best, the mother who denies herself for her child or the father who spends the housekeeping money on beer. One is only interested in self, the other denies self. That is daft is it viney. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 How, when you put others first? . Well I think that when one is truly in touch with oneself, only then do they truly realise we are all individuals with hopes and fears, pains and pleasures. To discover oneself is to discover the true meaning of good deeds towards others. It is where the notion of "do unto others..." ultimately comes from, surely. To reject oneself in the name of a higher being is to lose touch not only with who you are, but with who those around you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy_54 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 P.R.I.E.S.T pedophile resident in every small town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Well I think that when one is truly in touch with oneself, only then do they truly realise we are all individuals with hopes and fears, pains and pleasures. To discover oneself is to discover the true meaning of good deeds towards others. It is where the notion of "do unto others..." ultimately comes from, surely. To reject oneself in the name of a higher being is to lose touch not only with who you are, but with who those around you are. You are talking about yourself first. In Christianity others come first. You do not reject yourself, but you give of yourself. You give to others, I wouldn't know how to give to God except to give myself in the service of others. Think of Florence Nightingale, think of Mother Teresa, they gave of themselves. They sacrificed themselves for the sake of others in the work they did, and so do many others. While a lot more only think of themselves. Religion is about self. Christianity is about denial of self for the benefit of others. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 You are talking about yourself first. In Christianity others come first. You do not reject yourself, but you give of yourself. You give to others, I wouldn't know how to give to God except to give myself in the service of others. Think of Florence Nightingale, think of Mother Teresa, they gave of themselves. They sacrificed themselves for the sake of others in the work they did, and so do many others. While a lot more only think of themselves. . Think just a little deeper for a second, Grahame. Without sense of self, we are merely robots following commands. A true good deed comes from the very sense of how it will effect individuals, and this sense can only be realised if we are in touch with ourselves as individuals. Florence Nightingale was not altruistic, she merely took pleasure in helping others in ways she herself would have expected to be treat. Only a true sense of self can manifest such apparent altruism in any meaningful way. This is not a chicken and egg scenario. This is far more clear cut. First comes the sense of self, then comes the empathy towards others, as if they were oneself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Religion is about self. . I don't understand how it can be, since religion is about sacrificing the self (a crime against the self) to become part of an unthinking collective, blinded by doctrines of an apparent higher order. There can be no sense of self when one's soul is sold to an external institution in this way. Edited December 13, 2009 by epiphany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Think just a little deeper for a second, Grahame. Without sense of self, we are merely robots following commands. A true good deed comes from the very sense of how it will effect individuals, and this sense can only be realised if we are in touch with ourselves as individuals. Florence Nightingale was not altruistic, she merely took pleasure in helping others in ways she herself would have expected to be treat. Only a true sense of self can manifest such apparent altruism in any meaningful sense. This is not a chicken and egg scenario. This is far more clear cut. First comes the sense of self, then comes the empathy towards others, as if they were oneself. I'm thinking it is a bit like learning to drive a car and we have to think about the right pedals to use, we have to remember to look in the mirror, we have to release the handbrake at the right moment, but after a while we do it automatically without thinking. This is the self and when that is sorted we can move forward and begin thinking about others. If you are going to keep looking inward, then we are not going to make very good drivers on the highway of life. I need to go to bed. Night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) I'm thinking it is a bit like learning to drive a car and we have to think about the right pedals to use, we have to remember to look in the mirror, we have to release the handbrake at the right moment, but after a while we do it automatically without thinking. This is the self and when that is sorted we can move forward and begin thinking about others. If you are going to keep looking inward, then we are not going to make very good drivers on the highway of life. I need to go to bed. Night. Now I feel we are finding common ground. Of course, we may look around us at society today and see people who are so absorbed in who they think they are (mostly formed by external forces, whether it be the culture industry or other manufactured associations that give them a sense of identity other than their own). But this is clearly not the "sense of self" I am referring to. It is much deeper than that. It is about looking into someone's eyes and ultimately seeing yourself, and loving that person as if they were you (note: "loving yourself" has a completely different meaning to most, and it's not the same thing). That may sound silly to a lot of people, but it's a concept that I think represents, at the purest level, who we are and why we do good deeds. I do not believe altruism exists, but I strongly believe that the manifestation of apparent altruism is the result of people understanding the notion of the indivdual - their needs, their wants, their hopes and fears etc. If I could sum it up (albeit crudely) in one sentence, it would be "I love you because I could have been you". If you can understand this concept, then you understand why attachment to the self is sacred. Edited December 13, 2009 by epiphany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobee Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Just quickly, religion is about self. Christianity is about denial of self. . Religion is selfishness, praying for eternal life and giving money to please the Gods. The biggest con trick ever 'forced' on mankind. Praying is childishness. Edited December 13, 2009 by jobee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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