The new Islam megathread - Part 2

[EbonyBranch 10]

Hi Grahame,

Ok, but i'm not having a pop at you; others in this thread have described your views as extreme, read my post again and you'll see I wasn't.

I'm interested to read you find no errors in the bible. Is that the whole bible, or just the New Testament?

[Grahame 10]

Hi Grahame,

Ok, but i'm not having a pop at you; others in this thread have described your views as extreme, read my post again and you'll see I wasn't.

I'm interested to read you find no errors in the bible. Is that the whole bible, or just the New Testament?

 

The whole Bible really providing people don't take scripture out of context.

 

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[Little Buzz 10]

The whole Bible really providing people don't take scripture out of context.

 

From experience I would suggest you mean "as long as you sometimes go to enormous academic lengths and indulge in linguistic gymnastics to make the unpalatable bits mean something else.

 

Can you explain what the bit where god sends a bear to maul and kill the children who mocked Elijah for being bald really means?

[Grahame 10]

From experience I would suggest you mean "as long as you sometimes go to enormous academic lengths and indulge in linguistic gymnastics to make the unpalatable bits mean something else.

 

Can you explain what the bit where god sends a bear to maul and kill the children who mocked Elijah for being bald really means?

 

This is what it says.

 

"From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria."

 

He cursed them, as you might, and at that moment two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the children.

 

What's your problem when a group of youths cause a disturbance. With that number of people it would have been quite a disturbance. The bears will have been frightened and what do wild animals do when they are frightened? They turn on you. Don't you watch any wild life programs? You are reading something into it that isn't there.

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[sccsux 10]

You are misquoting me like you always do.

 

You have read my signature?

 

some of the things they do aren't so great and I think you have to agree with that.

 

I still wouldn't presume to make sweeping judgments (as you did), regardless of my personal opinion. I certainly wouldn't label a whole group of society in such a derogatory manner (especially on a public forum) unless I was part of that group (even then, I'd be reticent to do so). To do so would be pretty extreme.

[Little Buzz 10]

This is what it says.

 

"From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria."

 

So the curse the prophet 'called down' was entirely unrelated to them being almost immediately mauled by a bear? I wonder why it is even mentioned then - and I also wonder why your god made the bear attack them (or at least didn't prevent it)?

 

What effect would the curse have so you imagine?

[Grahame 10]

Hi again Grahame, looking at the passages you quote, I can't but notice this to be a mere opinion of man or men and not Jesus himself, so making the quote a little pointless, wouldn't you agree? Jesus is being refered to by the writer here surely and after the event of the cross etc?

 

“let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.” [Hebrews]

 

Here we have life and particularly the Christian life being likened to a race and sometimes in life we get weary, fed-up, tired, dispirited, and the writer is saying, “Imagine life is like a race, get rid of all your baggage, get rid of everything that will hinder you, get rid of everything that will slow you down and keep your eyes firmly fixed on Jesus. He is the author and finisher of our faith, He suffered for our sakes, he endured opposition, but he carried on and He will give you strength.

 

 

“Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [John]

 

This is Jesus speaking and he is saying what no human man or woman can ever say in truth. He is the way. He is the truth. He is the life. To know him is to know his father God and to know God we have to know Jesus, not Mohammed.

 

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[Grahame 10]

So the curse the prophet 'called down' was entirely unrelated to them being almost immediately mauled by a bear? I wonder why it is even mentioned then - and I also wonder why your god made the bear attack them (or at least didn't prevent it)?

 

What effect would the curse have so you imagine?

 

I imagine it would be like someone swearing and telling them to go away but in stronger words. But like I always say the Bible gives a faithful account as any witness should do today if you are writing a history or giving evidence in court. The Bible is a true account of what happened and the fact unpleasant things are recorded proves these things have not been edited out. It is always possible to put two and two together and make five and it is always possible to read things into something that are not there.

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[tab1 10]

“let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.” [Hebrews]

 

Here we have life and particularly the Christian life being likened to a race and sometimes in life we get weary, fed-up, tired, dispirited, and the writer is saying, “Imagine life is like a race, get rid of all your baggage, get rid of everything that will hinder you, get rid of everything that will slow you down and keep your eyes firmly fixed on Jesus. He is the author and finisher of our faith, He suffered for our sakes, he endured opposition, but he carried on and He will give you strength.

 

 

“Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." [John]

 

This is Jesus speaking and he is saying what no human man or woman can ever say in truth. He is the way. He is the truth. He is the life. To know him is to know his father God and to know God we have to know Jesus, not Mohammed.

 

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All this Jesus said ACCORDING to...... and that is the contentious part, the according to and then you have 50 odd variations of some people saying one thing and others saying another and worse still translations take away the correct meaning and people getting hold of wrong end of the stick and so on. All in all not reliable enough and contradictory enough to Torah and the Koran to be doubted as the absolute truth. I feel on that we have to agree to disagree Grahame otherwise you might end up getting very upset with me.

[EbonyBranch 10]

The whole Bible really providing people don't take scripture out of context.

 

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ok, that's useful to know. So, do you consider the whole history of the exodus from Egypt to be literally true? I mean; the enslavement of a couple of million jews, the battle with pharoah's magicians, the plagues, the 40 years in the desert, all that?

[Grahame 10]

ok, that's useful to know. So, do you consider the whole history of the exodus from Egypt to be literally true? I mean; the enslavement of a couple of million jews, the battle with pharoah's magicians, the plagues, the 40 years in the desert, all that?

 

Yes, I think it happened.

 

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[Grahame 10]

All this Jesus said ACCORDING to...... and that is the contentious part, the according to and then you have 50 odd variations of some people saying one thing and others saying another and worse still translations take away the correct meaning and people getting hold of wrong end of the stick and so on. All in all not reliable enough and contradictory enough to Torah and the Koran to be doubted as the absolute truth. I feel on that we have to agree to disagree Grahame otherwise you might end up getting very upset with me.

 

As I have just said I have never been able to find fault with the Bible. But I can find many many errors of fact in the Koran. So perhaps we had best leave it alone. You do know of course the Koran was compiled after Mohammed's death and what we have is the account of other people.

 

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