harvey19

6 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Stop your fellow Islamists shouting for the destruction of the Jews , That brings back memories of that time .

Perhaps that is on your agenda along with many of the Nazi style marches in our City's .

 

Already Jews and jewish schools have been attacked in London .

 

This very morning your heroes are making plans to march on Armistice day , A day when we should be remembering those brave men and women who lost their lives fighting the the Fascists who had gassed and murdered millions through out Europe .

If that march goes ahead then this Country is lost .

 

Those who feel so strongly could go over to Palestian as aid workers.

Not being sarcastic but again trying to be realistic.

33 minutes ago, Padders said:

I used to work in Pond St. Anna.

The old man would have been Cyril, the staff from the 4 seasons cafe used to give him a hot drink and a bit of grub..

He was harmless, even likeable.

He was found dead in a shop doorway, can't for the life of me remember where..

Rumour had it that he was an ex-RAF pilot..

R.I.P.  Cyril.. your still remembered.......

Rear gunner I heard.

These people had a valid excuse for their behaviour.

27 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

How many times have we been through that ?      You may not know but,  their politics doesn't work like ours,  and ours doesn't work very well.

The people of Palestine don't support what's happening,  in a similar way to my not supporting what's happening in my own country

I am not getting into middle eastern politics,  especially with you. but I wonder when reality will dawn that the current state of affairs is unsustainable and new moves must be made.

Hezbollah has fired 29 rockets into Israel this morning   -   how long can that carry on before Israel bombs Lebanon.  If that happened then Iran would probably join in,  backed by Russia.

You have all the ingredients for World War 3  in that melting pot but all everyone can say is Palestine deserves bombing and conveniently forgets that Israel cannot bomb everyone who doesn't like them.

Instead of political and legal nit-picking,  do you have any kind of view whereby this trouble could be dealt with and end the mass slaughter in the middle east ?

My honest feeling is that I care deeply about the innocent people of Palestine and the innocent people of Israel and I would like all their children to go to bed in safety with full stomachs.

I wish someone would,  by any means,  get rid of Netanyahu and the hawks in his government so that peace could prevail for the entire middle east.

 

 

You have not answered the question.

During ww2 not all Germans supported Adolf Hitler and not all Britains supported Winston Churchill regardless of this we bombed each others countries killing many civilians.

I do not condone killing of anyone but this is what happens in wars.

Dreadful as it is that is reality and when one country attacks another this is usually the result until one country surrenders.

31 minutes ago, mafya said:

Just because we have a Tory Govt in the UK doesn’t mean everyone in the UK is a Tory supporter.

Nice try….

Stop weaponising the holocaust to push your agenda. 🙄

Please see my answer to Organgrinder.

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

You can't recall Palestine attacking Israel either.  They don't have an army to attack anyone.

It was  a bunch of murdering Hamas terrorists who attacked them.

 

Isn’t Hamas the government ?

8 hours ago, Padders said:

Certainly do, 

And Cyril,

And Wellington Annie,

The Duke of Darnall,

Not Beggars though, just eccentric characters.

In my young days I recall being told some of the eccentric characters were that way because of the war.

If Israel is winning the "war" so conclusively why doesn't the Hamas government surrender to save lives ?

5 minutes ago, horribleblob said:

Well, obviously enough to warrant an inquiry. How many would you consider necessary before taking the issue seriously?

I'm sure you're not seeking to excuse the behaviour mentioned in the linked BBC report, or to dispute the findings of the investigation, are you?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67287479

Just looking for specifics as most of the reports appear to be without specific details.

First question must be how many complaints have there been made and how many substantiated .

Over £215,000 now.

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I've made it perfectly clear who I'm blaming and I'm not going to have  words put into my mouth  by you.  The innocent Palestinians who are dying every day are dying at the hands of Israel.

This last eruption in the long running situation  was  caused by the Hamas attack which was savage and uncivilised and which  everyone condemns.

Israel has a right to defend itself but it's defence should be appropriate.  If they were simply attacking terrorists,  no one would mind but they are attacking thousands of innocent civilians.

They WILL NOT bomb Hamas into submission.  Nobody has ever managed to wipe out a terrorist group yet.

What happened in Northern Ireland is the answer but, as Hamas cannot be trusted, the world must step in with International Law. 

There will never be peace whilst Israel occupies other nations land.

 

When the enemy does not wear uniform or is part of an army how do you know who the terrorist is ?

If the terrorists were not acting in collusion with the government why hasn’t the Hamas government handed them over. ?

Wasn’t it a legal agreement for the creation of the state of Israel ?

2 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

They already realise but they don't care.

They realise that if they attack Israeli's,  the people of Palestine will get bombed which is exactly what's  happening.

They don't particularly care about the people of Palestine so it's not a deterrent.

If it's so simple,  why has it been going on for 75 years ?

It's the way it's being dealt with that's simple.

So in essence you are blaming Hamas for the deaths of Palestinians.

There is only one way forward in any situation where people feel victims  because of historic events and take up a cause.

That is to put the past behind them.

Look how our country and others are friends with other countries we are in world wars with.

10 minutes ago, RJRB said:

And you believe that will be the case?

Or might it just create the terrorists of the future?

It's obvious they will know what will happen in the future if they behave in this way again and may make them realise a different approach is needed.

There will always some people that follow a cause but it is their own government that must stop them killing others in pursuance of their cause that does not reap rewards.

8 minutes ago, RJRB said:

What you seem to ignore is that most people on here totally support the establishment of the State of Israel and the protection of its people into the future.

Peace initiatives between some of its neighbours have been reached in the past and some degree of normality enjoyed.

That is enjoyed by those other than fanatics and terrorists.

Much as we would all like to see the back of all of these,it’s not going to happen .

How do you fight suicide bombers and the current blitz satisfies revenge and retribution whilst stoking up future problems.

So in simple terms and accepting that Oct 7th was a Hamas terrorist attack,what do you think will be achieved by the bombing of Gaza.?

The end of Hamas?

 

 

 

 

 

Make Hamas realise what their terrorist actions achieve and what will happen if they do the same thing again.

Quite simple.

20 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

That's already been discussed and you fail to explain how peaceful unarmed Palestinian families can overrule heavily armed battle hardened terrorists.

Someone did point out that you could reverse that argument and ask why, six million Jews didn't offer more resistance to the Germans in the 1940's and put a stop to it.

Surely you don't think that ordinary Palestinian families are the ones who are holding the hostages.   The Palestinians will be as afraid of Hamas as they are of Israel.

Bear in mind that, in situations like this, you usually find that there is also a lot of propaganda and brainwashing.

 

Fully agree and one has to be very wary of any news.

It has not been discussed why the Hamas government has not released the hostages and surrendered in the interests of the civilian population.

The Hamas government represents all of its population like the Tories represent all of the UKs population whether all of the population vote for them or not.

I also fully agree that many civilians will be afraid to oppose their government or terrorists.

Sadly in all wars and conflicts civilians are killed. In one month during ww2 more civilians were killed in the blitz than soldiers at war.

If Hamas is the government of the Palestinians presumably the Palestinians and Israelis countries are at war.

If the terrorists who committed the 7th October are Hamas presumably they represented that government and country.

If the Palestinians are being beaten why don't they release the hostages, hand over the 7th October killers and surrender ?

Not taking sides but a few relevant facts that I think need to be brought into the debate.

3 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

That's well done . Amazing how generous people can be in these times of hardship for many. 

Yes it is an excellent result.

£184,000 is the sum raised I underreported it earlier.

A wonderful achievement .

£170,000 now raised for the RBL by the GBnews .

3 minutes ago, Delbow said:

I just love hearing people saying 'why didn't the UK government "do a Sweden"'. These people have clearly never spent any amount of time in Sweden or any other Scandinavian country.  In Sweden, if the government gives them an evidence based rationale for behaving in a certain way, then that's how the vast majority of people will behave. They didn't need to legislate because Swedish adults are actual adults. The idea of trying something similar in Britain is laughable. Maybe half the population would pay attention, but the other half would instinctively go "I'm not doing that!" and start concocting infantile conspiracy theories about how virologists and pubic health experts were all in the pay of the Bilderberg group or some nonsense. 

 

My favourite anecdote illustrating the difference is the time I was at Stockholm central bus station and there were public toilets where you put 10 kr. in and the door opened. People were coming out and people who were just on their way in would wait for the door to close, put their 10 kr. in and then open the door - because they understood that it needs paying for, and that you can't rely on everyone else to pay for everything because if everyone does that you lose your public toilets, public transport etc. In Britain, everyone would just tailgate in and not pay.

 

Honestly, if you spend just a few weeks in any Scandinavian country, when you come back to the UK the Brits genuinely look like some kind of subspecies.

Well off topic but whilst in Malmo Sweden written in the dirt on a window was Man. United for the Cup !.

8 minutes ago, El Cid said:

The poppy appeal has raised £2 billion since it started.

What is the money spent on?

 

Is the money needed these days?

 

We have the benefit system to look after people, the army personnel are reasonably well paid with a pension and compensation for injurries.

 

Billions is raised by various charities, you would think hardship was a thing of the past.

Why does it still exist?

Any comment on the actual topic of the thread which was about a very positive act and generosity and support for our servicemen and women from the general public.

It was not about the functions of the RBL.

I started this thread to highlight praise for a good cause and sadly it has gone the way of others.

26 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You fail to realise, that though Maggie is long gone,  her policies lived on and are alive and well today.

So is the fact that all the jobs she binned are still gone and we have to buy everything in from elsewhere instead of looking at the lovely "Made in England" legend.

. 

You'll have to live with the fact that people who are still alive,  are allowed to talk.  It may not fit with your extreme right wing dogma but that's the way it is.

The Nazi view has never been accepted over here so  you must come to terms with it.   Of course people still listen to him   -   you'll have to live with that too.

 

Many of the jobs and industries went because of unrealistic union demands which made them uneconomic.

You can still buy "Made in England" goods if you are willing to pay higher prices.

Mrs. Thatcher had to decide who ruled the country the elected government or the unions, She chose democracy.

48 minutes ago, RJRB said:

@Al Bundy

As the IRA used to say,we only have to get lucky once.

I subscribe to the possibility that the perpetrators of this attack could not believe that they got so far and inflicted so much damage without any response from Israeli troops.

There aren't soldiers everywhere and even if there had been they would probably have been killed also.

I presume living with such uncertainty there are regular warnings of possible offensive actions in different areas which do not occur.

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

Einstein,the Jewish pacifist who was under constant review by Hoover who considered him to be a Left Wing sympathiser.

I wonder what he would have thought about either Netanyahu’ s failure to protect his people or intent,depending on your point of view.

 

A surprise attack by limited terrorists can happen anywhere.

A surprise happened in WW2 against America at Pearl Harbour by a large force.