harvey19

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

There are conditions on most schemes of course. However making something which is a basic human need such as housing, conditional on something which an individual has struggled with the whole or most of their life - such as their mental health, ability to sustain relationships, or their means of coping is grossly unfair.

And if people cannot manage to stick to the rules of the 'lifestyle change centres' then what?

Wouldn't it be much better to have in place hostels, community centres, support services etc? Much easier to manage and more appealing to people I would've thought.

It was Axe who used the term workhouses and work farms, and it was him that I was responding to.

Of course - some are, some aren't, most it will be in between. Why is that important?

But we know that anything with compulsion especially dealing with ingrained behaviour learned from childhood is destined to fail. 

Why not have a system which recognises the independence, choice and rights of a person? That's how you or I would like to be treated.

What about those that can not cope on their own ?

The LCC that I speak of would be very much like an hostel.

29 minutes ago, Mister M said:

 

But since 2010 they have cut the funding for hostels by 20% at a time when the issue of homelessness was on the rise. 

Many people who are homeless are veterans leaving the armed forces, many have been neglected or abused as children, many have learning difficulties or mental health problems, many struggle to sustain personal relationships. How are they weak or have made poor and wrong personal choices?

I very much doubt these modern day workhouses or work farms would be so attractive if the philosophy behind them is "you're to blame" even when people patently are not to blame.

Please use the new names.

But some people are to blame for their plight.

Some people are victims of circumstances.

Instead of finding fault try and see the positives. I am sure I would rather sleep in a bed, be fed and clothed instead of sleeping on a cold and wet pavement.

34 minutes ago, Mister M said:

No - absolutely not.

Give people what they need - a home, or at the very least a hostel place.

Then present them with choices which feel right for their circumstances. Homeless people will have a range of problems, like the population has a range of problems. These could be their mental health, addiction, difficulties in sustaining relationships - but what you can't do is make one conditional on the other - that is, we'll give you a home if you promise to 'mend your ways'. 

But it would appear that we aren't doing anything at present.

Obviously there will be on conditions on any scheme.

Housing..Look after it , no anti social behaviour.

34 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

They are not so well documented are they ?      I wonder why ?      did these good ones exist at all.     Where were they an where can we learn what they did from an impartial source ?

Read some books on the subject.

34 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

 

Don't worry mate because it's not going to happen.

For a start, they don't know how to set a Bingo stall up,       2/  they don't have any money,       3/   they don't have any time and will be gone soon.

4/   Do they think the people will put up with any more of this ?

 

6 minutes ago, Mister M said:

The other alternative is to present people with choices such as a hostel or a safe place if they have nowhere else to go. 

I'm not against encouraging people to make the right choices for themselves - such as rehabilition centres for people with drug and alcohol problems, crisis centres for anyone experiencing mental health problems, FE colleges if they want to acquire new skills etc. These should be available to everyone, not just the homeless - since there will be people with homes who have addiction, and mental health issues or would like to learn a new skill.

But it's something that the person has to want themselves. If it's enforced then people will more than likely resent it and end up back at square one. Which is no different to anyone else. It's like giving up smoking or dieting. The person has to be motivated to do it.

So basically give up on those needing the most help.

12 minutes ago, cressida said:

Lifestyle Change Centres  -  https://www.google.com/search?q=lifestyle+centres+in+Sheffield&sca_esv=579599539&sxsrf=AM9HkKkrPjbc3yUb_ssD2p_S5VslXwp3kA%3A1699184149444&ei=FX5HZavQGomEhbIP1Nuz2A4

 

Never heard of them,  perhaps they give out leaflets to the job centres etc.

I made the name up last night as it was more acceptable and different to some of the "wretched workhouses" of old.

8 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Axe was.

I was reading a report a good while ago, I think from one of the homelessness charities, and it painted a bleak but realistic picture of homelessness. One of its conclusion was that if you don't have mental health problems which caused the homelessness, you will end up with mental health problems as a consequence of being homeless. Even then, I wouldn't say that they have 'lifestyle' problems.

I think lifestyle problems implies choice, and I don't think that's the issue.

Some may have come from backgrounds of abuse and neglect, I doubt whether they'd see themselves in need of a 'lifestyle change centre'.

If you want people to change, they've got to want it as well. They will come to that decision for themselves, like everybody else. It's not something that can be enforced.

 

But you can show them there is a different life to the one they are living at present.

The other alternative is just leave them.

Years ago when the armed forces were bigger many young people found an home in the army or navy which avoided them getting into the situations we see today.

Just now, mafya said:

I’m sure on the news the pro Palestinian protesters did say when questioned that they didn’t condone them and that the situation is getting out of hand and asking for all killing to stop. I havnt seen anyone glorifying the oct 7th attacks 

I praise you for your call to Cutsie and speaking to your Mosque leaders.

6 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Their "lifestyle" problems are they have no home, or no permanent home. They may have mental health problems, learning disabilities, drug or alcohol addictions, social problems, or 'lifestyle problems'. I would've thought hostels and crisis centres would be much better placed to respond to people's needs than some wretched workhouse. 

Lots of people with homes, with jobs, with families,  have problems. What would you want for yourself? Somewhere that deals with you with compassion and respect, or something with the taint of disapproving moralism? I know which one I'd want.

No one is talking about a wretched workhouse.

I used that term as the institution incorporated accommodation, meals, clothing, routine and self improvement.

As I said earlier let us substitute the word workhouse for Lifestyle Change Centre.

12 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Changing the name doesn't make them different places.

No post will be relevant to you because you don't want to hear the truth.

 

Makes no difference really because the Sewage Party doesn't have enough time left to put these things in place.

As I said,  the people will tell you what's relevant and there are a lot more who are  "uncomfortable",   than there are who are  "comfortable".

I can wait when somethings worth waiting for.

 

Try to stop always criticising.

Weren't you taught as a child........If you have nothing good to say, say nothing.

2 minutes ago, cressida said:

A workhouse - surely we can do better than that,  please put on better alternatives,  that's depressing they need encouraging,  everybody is interested and good at something,  not patronising.

Lifestyle Change Centres.

31 minutes ago, Mister M said:

True, but you'd think something as serious as an alleged rapist amongst his ranks would be uppermost in his mind.

What's wrong with hostels and crisis centres?

Call them what you want, hostels, crisis centres, care homes but can these address the massive lifestyle problems some people have and improve their lives and lifestyles.

Your reply to Axe is using distraction tactics instead of looking at benefits for those in need.

Examples of the bad institutions are well documented but what about the good ones that provided accommodation, food, clothing, education and lifestyle improvement.

Management would be scrutinised nowadays.

21 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Thought it might be to someone who believes in workhouses.

We should be thankful you're not calling for floggings and public hangings too.

Braverman is going to stop the tent cities,  never realising the people want house cities.

Who else but you and axe,   believes you will win the next election ?

You have no answers to anything,  just   "it's not relevant"         It's probably not to you,  but it will be when people go to vote in the next General election and the are not  "comfortable"  like you.

 

If you give people so many things to criticise,  then they will   and you'll just have to get used to it.

If you read back the suggestion was for Lifestyle Change Centres instead of workhouse.

Your post was irrelevant because it did not address the people with big lifestyle problems.

1 minute ago, Axe said:

He is hardly likely to know everything that happens.

 

A homeless person would have a better and more healthy quality of life living and working in a modern day workhouse.  Modern day workhouses and workfarms would be progressive.

Sadly some will not consider anything to help and only want to criticise.

Just now, mafya said:

I gave you a reason why the Israeli victims were not on the news and it also said that Israel was keeping the victim’s family members silenced by not giving them publicity so that the general Israeli public is not swayed to turn against the govt that’s why they we’re protesting outside Netanyahu’s house. This was on al jazeera 

I do not watch/listen to that station.

There is no mention or very little on the main news channels.

1 minute ago, Organgrinder said:

I've already said it, over and over,  on this forum and so have other posters too.

We need some investment which would create modern proper jobs in new modern industries which could also make us greener at the same time.

When labour last left office,  all the plans for rebuilding and maintenance of Hospitals, schools and other public building were scrapped.

We need a massive housebuilding program to match the one in the 50's and similar with Hospitals etc.

That would create no end of jobs and put money in people pockets.

 

They don't want to go in a workhouse,  they want to go in a new home, which they can pay for with their new jobs.

Didn't you realise that people would like to have homes and jobs and see a future where they could raise families.

Workhouses and Workfarms are typical tory answers for the MODERN age.

The government will ALWAYS be criticised until they start doing the job properly and stop creating disorder.

 

All irrelevant to the subject.

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

He promised what his salivating electorate wanted: Brexit.

Quid pro quo was -  I give you your Brexit, you give me the keys to No 10, and I will fulfill my bacchanalian, degenerate fantasies.

I know that is often quoted but it is his rise in the party and becoming leader of the party that I question.

1 minute ago, mafya said:

 I think if posters of dead Palestinians went up they would also probably get torn down by pro Israelis.

 

 

You never had a point

Read my post again please and then you will see it.

1 minute ago, mafya said:

On the news it said 60 of the hostages had been killed by Israeli air strikes and with the way Israel has gone ahead with its bloodlust it may be that the goodwill towards Israel has changed direction towards the thousands of innocent Palestinians getting killed. I saw on the news that the families were protesting outside Netanyahu’s house and the way the Israeli police were pushing a couple of them about was shocking.

 

Proved my point.

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

I don't suppose it matters.

He was the PM while the stench of decay emanating from the Tory Party was in full force.

Evidence, if any was needed, that a fish rots from the head down.

I can not understand how he got to the position he did.

The book should shed some light on the subject.

I look forward to reading it.

Just now, Organgrinder said:

I've read them and seen your wish to move back to the dark ages.

Can't say it surprises me though as the tories never were progressive.

 

It is not a move back to the dark ages but a way to improve people’s lives and lifestyles.

Criticism is easy but trying to actually do something positive is not so easy.

Give us your positive way forward and not just criticising the government.

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

I think it's a Christmas present for opposition parties!

Wonder how many copies Boris will receive ?

2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

 

 

Good grief!

 

The book will be a Christmas present for many I think.

1 minute ago, Organgrinder said:

We can see how well the right wing tory thoughts work by their eagerness in the 21st century to start moving back to workhouses again.

What a modern progressive party.

I think the idea of not building houses is to get us all back into caves.

 

Do you ever think things through before criticising.

Read the earlier posts on the subject.

1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

So now we have posters who cannot make an argument, decide to speak in dots instead.

Says a great deal for their mental capacity, their courage,  and their lack of backing for their point of view.

 

If you are referring to me I removed my post.

I had posted that we hear hardly anything  about the massacred innocent Israelis or their families now.

Satisfied or have you any other insults to throw.

This thread is about raising money to help service men and women not to have digs at a news station.

I find it very sad that people can not see the good things that happen and only want to criticise and find things to feed their own agenda.

Well done GBnews for supporting our veterans.

...........................

Thinking of my colleagues who were killed.

9 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

That's a good argument mister M.  Unfortunately, we know the government will switch from one excuse to another in their determination to do nothing.

 

You do make some daft statements.

Have you read the history of them ?

2 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

He's not talking about Victorian workhouses . He's already pointed out the word "workhouse"  ruffles your feathers .

Not all workhouses were bad places, some provided an home for the needy and medical care.