EU Referendum - How will you vote?

I don't want to be treated like a Mexican or an Indian. I want to be treated like a European.

You could have been honest about that from the start instead of pretending that you was undecided, if the free movement of people is the most important thing for you then vote in and I will respect your decision.

The majority of politicians may enter with the best of intentions but they quickly become in it for themselves. You have to remember no matter what party they belong to they are out for themselves, it's just the tortes are more honest about it.

Look at Blair, if you did not know his history you would swear the multi millionaire was a Tory. I despise them all.

The true politician working for the benefit of the masses became extinct centuries ago, you just have to vote for the party that will do the least damage to you.

Strange poll results give what the BBC and bookies are saying

As for Scotland leaving the union I think they would miss us more than we would miss them and unless the eu was there to bail them out like they do eastern countries they would very quickly be in trouble, but that is a different debate.

The majority of politicians may enter with the best of intentions but they quickly become in it for themselves. You have to remember no matter what party they belong to they are out for themselves, it's just the tortes are more honest about it.

Look at Blair, if you did not know his history you would swear the multi millionaire was a Tory. I despise them all.

The true politician working for the benefit of the masses became extinct centuries ago, you just have to vote for the party that will do the least damage to you.

That is a result of the system here, it genuinely is. I can illustrate it using the Dutch proportional representation example as well. If you go to the "1982 tot heden" table you see an overview of parties (rows) and the number of seats they achieved in each election (columns).

Traditionally the CDA, PvdA and VVD are the biggest parties, they have most money and most loyal followers, they are basically the Christians, Labour and Conservatives respectively. But they can't govern without having a coalition.

That is where it becomes interesting, the grey squares denote which party was in the coalition after each election. So if you see the 2010 elections, the PVV (Geert Wilders - populist anti immigration a la Farage) actually got into power. In other words, voting for the party you want in actually works. The only thing you can do in Britain is vote against or for. That is it.

It is almost entirely binary: It is a rubbish system because it means that the other party (now Labour) just has to wait whilst the Tories fall out of favour with the public and than they'll be in power again. There is no contest which means whatever party is in power can do whatever the hell they like. It disenfranchises people from politics.

That is a result of the system here, it genuinely is. I can illustrate it using the Dutch proportional representation example as well. If you go to the "1982 tot heden" table you see an overview of parties (rows) and the number of seats they achieved in each election (columns).

 

Traditionally the CDA, PvdA and VVD are the biggest parties, they have most money and most loyal followers, they are basically the Christians, Labour and Conservatives respectively. But they can't govern without having a coalition.

 

That is where it becomes interesting, the grey squares denote which party was in the coalition after each election. So if you see the 2010 elections, the PVV (Geert Wilders - populist anti immigration a la Farage) actually got into power. In other words, voting for the party you want in actually works. The only thing you can do in Britain is vote against or for. That is it.

 

It is almost entirely binary: It is a rubbish system because it means that the other party (now Labour) just has to wait whilst the Tories fall out of favour with the public and than they'll be in power again. There is no contest which means whatever party is in power can do whatever the hell they like. It disenfranchises people from politics.

Yes. We should have a referendum on changing the system here. Oh wait....

Are your "Christian" party actually theocrats? If so that's rather scary.

Do you have a constituency MP to take your problems to which can then take them up with the government?

Yes. We should have a referendum on changing the system here. Oh wait....

 

Are your "Christian" party actually theocrats? If so that's rather scary.

 

Do you have a constituency MP to take your problems to which can then take them up with the government?

We should have had a referendum on proportional representation, not the dumbed down, watered down FPTP nonsense we got. The CDA aren't theocrats, although they did oppose various laws due to it being against their faith, euthanasia and abortion being obvious ones. They also block things like sunday opening hours for all shops etc. Nothing scary about them, almost every European country has a party with a Christian focus. Fortunately they are on the wane, there is one strong secular Christian party, SGP, who always win two seats due to appealing to ultra-conservatives, they were slapped down recently because they didn't allow women votes in party-meetings, they would be scary, if bible-bashers are scary and if they had a cat's chance in hell of gaining more than two seats. On the other end of the scale we have the Party for the Animals, they are downright scary, demanding price-hikes in meat in supermarkets and so on, but at least it means the Vegans can vote for someone they relate to as well. That is the whole point - Proportional Representation opens up the floor for alternative ways of looking at things. Over time we have had other oddities, a full blown Communist Party, a racist party, a republican party, a houseparty... (joke, the last one anyway).

You don't need a constituent MP in the Netherlands, and I would question how useful it is to have one here, I know we have been palmed off on a rather significant topic by our repeat-order Labour MP. In the Netherlands you can ask direct parliamentary questions by petitioning your party (if you are a member, I have had questions about local governance and student-loans dealt with) or you can trigger a debate in the 'Tweede Kamer' or even trigger a full-scale referendum by gaining a number of signatures on online petitions.

We should have had a referendum on proportional representation, not the dumbed down, watered down FPTP nonsense we got.

Yes we should but its not in the best interest of Lab/Con and their supporters so it very unlikely that we will ever get one.

We should have had a referendum on proportional representation, not the dumbed down, watered down FPTP nonsense we got. The CDA aren't theocrats, although they did oppose various laws due to it being against their faith, euthanasia and abortion being obvious ones. They also block things like sunday opening hours for all shops etc. Nothing scary about them, almost every European country has a party with a Christian focus. Fortunately they are on the wane.

Is there still a Catholic/Protestant element to politics in the Netherlands. In this day and age? It seems odd.

A referendum of STV failed. A referendum on PR would quite clearly have failed much harder.

The risk with PR is that as nobody ever wins (almost never [scotland]), policy never changes. You end up with a broad immovable governing consensus. You also risk ending up with no government at all, if no coalition can be formed.

How often does the Monarch have to step in in the Netherlands? It's been a while since it happened here.

I voted for STV by the way and I would have seriously considered voting for PR. But the people have spoken. What could be more democratic than that?

You don't need a constituent MP in the Netherlands, and I would question how useful it is to have one here, I know we have been palmed off on a rather significant topic by our repeat-order Labour MP. In the Netherlands you can ask direct parliamentary questions by petitioning your party (if you are a member, I have had questions about local governance and student-loans dealt with) or you can trigger a debate in the 'Tweede Kamer' or even trigger a full-scale referendum by gaining a number of signatures on online petitions.

We have a similar system with petitions triggering debates here.

I don't see evidence of a causal link between PR and quality of leadership.

---------- Post added 30-05-2016 at 17:15 ----------

Yes we should but its not in the best interest of Lab/Con and their supporters so it very unlikely that we will ever get one.

Yes. Also the people don't want it. You and I and others might want it, but we're in the minority.

I'm going to say that once again. PR is not what the UK people want.

 

Yes. Also the people don't want it. You and I and others might want it, but we're in the minority.

 

I'm going to say that once again. PR is not what the UK people want.

Yep, most people only want a fair system when it benefits them, if an unfair system benefits them they are happy for it to be unfair.

Yep, most people only want a fair system when it benefits them, if an unfair system benefits them they are happy for it to be unfair.

Which explains why a lot of people seem to support EU membership not based on how they want to be governed, but what policies they want implemented.

Which explains why a lot of people seem to support EU membership not based on how they want to be governed, but what policies they want implemented.

I think that's probably spot on.