OMFG... what a great film! Why is part 3 so far away... aaaarrrrggghhhh!
I am SO going to get it on DVD when it's out to buy..... in the states!

The Matrix Reloaded DVD in the states could be October?...But you can buy The Animatrix before then. Its a collection of nine short films all about the matrix world :wink:

I thought it was shocking. Plain and simple.

Shocking in a good way or shocking in a bad way?

I shall be giving it a miss.

The Matrix was enjoyable enough, but the ill conceived cod-cyberpunk annoyed hell out of me.

I also think Keanu Reeves should get more parts playing robots, like arnie.

Now the original Solaris, based on the Lem novel, there's a masterpiece. Or Dark Star, but with the notable exception of Starship Troopers, I can't think of a single good Science Fiction film released in the last 10 years.

Memory must be failing.

Saw it last night - although the new twists to the story are interesting, if a little confusing, and some of the confrontations lapse into sometimes over-indulgent martial arts fests, I'd say it's worth seeing for the eye-candy alone.

Some of it is beautifully filmed - I really liked the slow motion "rave" section, and the many impressive cityscapes and backgrounds....but it's the special effects that do it - the "burly brawl" fight scene where Neo takes on hundreds of clones of Agent Smith is incredible and the car chase is an effects masterpiece which had my jaw dropping a couple of times.

Keanu is again a bit wooden, but luckily, as in the first film he doesn't have to say too much.

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

I shall be giving it a miss.

The Matrix was enjoyable enough, but the ill conceived cod-cyberpunk annoyed hell out of me.

I also think Keanu Reeves should get more parts playing robots, like arnie.

Now the original Solaris, based on the Lem novel, there's a masterpiece. Or Dark Star, but with the notable exception of Starship Troopers, I can't think of a single good Science Fiction film released in the last 10 years.

Memory must be failing.
What about Event Horizon?

Star Trek: First Contact

Is that the one with Sam Neill and the mad black rotating evil drive that came back from another dimension all haunted and more evil?

I liked that one, but I guess its more a case of me having a very narrow definition of 'sci-fi'.

Many, if not most, so called sci fi films are actually action films with 'space' effects thrown in for a futuristic setting (eye candy).

But the matrix is at least based on the 'where is baseline reality?' conundrum that has been the staple of Sci Fi writers for years. But it's mainly an action movie. Obviously I can't speak about Matrix 2.

For a funnier, scarier version of the matrix (almost) Stan Lem's book 'The Futurogical Congress - worth a read.

The hero is attending a population control conference in Brazil as the world population balloons. The hotel is the target of a terrorist attack, using chemicals and drugs that affect the perception.

Soon the hero is slipping up and down through layers of horrifying reality, revealing a Chemocratic government that rules by application of chemicals. Fooling people into thinking they are eating steak, when in fact it is cardboard etc.

As far as Action Sci Fi goes, I must recommend Starship Troopers (dir. Verhooeven - Robocop) as being a true to the book yet heavily tongue in cheek adaptation of Heinlein's Teen SciFi novel of the same name.

If you haven't seen it, try it on Vid, you're in for a treat.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Shocking in a good way or shocking in a bad way?

Shocking in that I thought it was crap. Compared to the first one anyway.

What is the Matrix.
After viewing it 3 times now I have come up with what I believe is the matrix.

The matrix still exists. everyone is still connected to the matrix. zion is part of the matrix. the architect talks about the oracle saying that humans need choice so they dont reject the matrix. a select few reject the matrix, so it created a "game" to keep them happy. that game makes them believe that they are not in the matrix, and fighting against it. thus, neo morpheus et al are still in the matrix. I think Neo realises this when he stops the sentinels at the end. Zion is not the real world (where he would not have powers) it is the matrix (so his powers exist. he just needed to believe)

I also think that Morpheus was "The One" is the previous generation of the matrix. Except he chose to save mankind and restart with 16 women/7men etc. I think Neo realises that he can do both, so he saves the girl.

its message is also clear: everything has a purpose. a purpose inside the matrix to keep the computers happy. thus, the oracle is a human (ie connected to the matrix, i think) that can read the matrix code, but is allowed to carry on because it is part of the game. every generation of the matrix she gives hope to zion in the early days that The One is coming.

Its all a game to keep the human drones connected to the matrix happy.

The Architect says: "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here." To explain in English, he is saying that Neo is an anomaly in the matrix, but which can be controlled by the matrix.

Humans need choice, even though that choice has already been made. The oracle mentions this a lot. They need to believe they have a choice, even though they do not.

As for agent smith, im not sure. i think he is a virus. His clone entering Zion is further proof that Zion is part of the matrix.

As for the architect, he is just the matrix personified as a human. His job is to explain the above to The One, who usually goes on to save mankind. neo chose to do both and save trinity as well.

The bit that troubles me is:

The Architect - ...Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept.

If "they" have gone to all the trouble of creating the Matrix, would they allow it to be undone so easily?

Some other interesting stuff on the Matrix official site's philosophy section (http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/new_phil_frames.html)

Originally posted by "Mike"

The bit that troubles me is:

The Architect - ...Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept.

If "they" have gone to all the trouble of creating the Matrix, would they allow it to be undone so easily?

Some other interesting stuff on the Matrix official site's philosophy section (http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/new_phil_frames.html)
It's obviously part of the game. After all the Architect is part of th Artificial Intelligence, is it not possible he could be just spinning neo a line?

Yeah, true, it must have been just a line coz the world didn't end after he chose the "wrong" choice.

This is a very interesting review: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm which demonstrates much of the religious philosophy behind the film.

As an aside, Monica Bellucci who played Pershephone blew my mind - how can anyone look that fine?

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"



The matrix still exists. everyone is still connected to the matrix. zion is part of the matrix. the architect talks about the oracle saying that humans need choice so they dont reject the matrix. a select few reject the matrix, so it created a "game" to keep them happy. that game makes them believe that they are not in the matrix, and fighting against it. thus, neo morpheus et al are still in the matrix. I think Neo realises this when he stops the sentinels at the end. Zion is not the real world (where he would not have powers) it is the matrix (so his powers exist. he just needed to believe)

i dont believe this to be true. the machines do not have to create a second matrix to control the humans in zion. the humans are given hope, that one day they will find "the one", which will lead to the destruction of the matrix. this keeps them busy and stops any threat of attack from the humans, as they feel that there is no need because of the prophecy.

I feel that neo can stop the sentinels in the real world because of his connection with agent smith. I think that when neo "killed"smith in the first matrix they exchanged code which allows neo to connect directly to the machines.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"



I also think that Morpheus was "The One" is the previous generation of the matrix. Except he chose to save mankind and restart with 16 women/7men etc. I think Neo realises that he can do both, so he saves the girl.

I dont feel that morpheus was "the one" in the previous versions of the matrix for a couple of reasons
- if he was "the one" in the previous versions then he would know that the prophecy was not true, therefore he would consider it pointless to help in the search for the one and would more likely educate people not to follow the prophecy.
- I think that if "the one" enters the source then when his code is exchanged he is killed.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"



thus, the oracle is a human (ie connected to the matrix, i think) that can read the matrix code, but is allowed to carry on because it is part of the game. every generation of the matrix she gives hope to zion in the early days that The One is coming.

the oracle says that she is a program. She helped construct the matrix, she has already programmed what is going to happen, therefore she is able to predict the future and lead the resistance to where the machines want them. here.

Originally posted by "DaBouncer"


As for agent smith, im not sure. i think he is a virus. His clone entering Zion is further proof that Zion is part of the matrix.

agent smith is free of the matrix, he has tasted humanity and is overwhelmed by it. He wants more power that is why he loads himself into every available person.

I dont think that this is proof that zion is part of the matrix, I just think that smith overwrote baines brain as you would overwrite a file on a hard drive.

overall i thought it was a very good film. im hoping that revolutions will answer everyons questions! 8)

Then I guess we'll see who's right when the next film is released.
I bet it's me tho! :wink:

fair enough! 8)

*SPOILERS*
If you have not seen the film, don't read on.

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Originally posted by "waxy chuff"

Shocking in that I thought it was crap. Compared to the first one anyway.

Wow, someone that almost feels the same way as I.
I wouldn't say it was crap, but I wouldn't say it's a worthy sequel either. It confused the hell out of me and they concentrated far too much on the "favourite" scenes from the first one to make this a success. Many slow mo fight scenes, the bullet 'stopping' and slow mo bullet shooting. Plus Morpheus lost much of his original leadership since we saw powers above him, and the speech to Zion just reeked a whole 'Star Wars' thing to it.

Though I'm ALWAYS negative towards sequels, so this could just be one of those films. Then again, I didn't think much to the original film until I saw it for a second time.

I absolutely loved it. I've seen it twice and am going for a third time very soon! I am a huge fan of the first and can not tell you how many times I've seen it since I lost count a long time ago! I was very nervous of the sequel, since I love the first one so much, I didn't want to see it ruined. However, I was totally blown away by it and I don't care what anyone says about it in their reviews! Everyone is entitled to their views, and I have read all your postings with interest. What annoys me though is people who slag it off and they don't even get it! Oh well!

I found this with the first one....a lot of people watched it and enjoyed it for the most cutting edge effects that had been seen in years and saw it as an ace action film. Well thats fair enough, but a lot of people didn't actually understand the meaning of the film, and how deep it actually was. Which is what alot of the real cult Matrix fans appreciate. I remember having such fantastic philosophical conversations when it came out. When I asked people to tell me what they thought the first one was about, they didn't get it at all. e.g. I would ask what was going on when Neo swallowed the pill and went down the shot into the Pod. The answer I got was a confused 'don't know, time travel, being reborn?'. They didn't get the fact that the pill was a tracker device or the concept of him being woken and unplugged from the Matrix. I would have thought that quite fundamental to the plot! But nevertheless these mates of mine enjoyed it anyway. I admit I had to watch it a couple of times to understand it completley but it was very clever. And even now, I can watch it and still notice more things. Objects cleverly placed, TV programmes in the background, along with all the religious metaphors and quotes with hidden meanings. The whole concept of freedom of choice and fate.
Now the second one is out, and it was a bit of a head ****. I came out of the cinema thinking and thinking, and thinking some more! The second time was a bit clearer, and after reading forums about it, I hope to understand more the third time. At the moment I still need some questions answering myself. It had changed what you think was going on in the first film and I love that. I love how thought provoking it all is. As for the special effects. Wow. It was brill, jaw dropping motorway scenes, the fighting scenes were artistic brilliance. And, although only a short bit, I loved when Neo flew up above the clouds, and the moon was in the sky, and he went into slow-mo before flying back down. I know a lot of people will go and see this film and be blown away by the action, and not be interested by the explanations. In fact when I saw it for the second time the man next to me in the cinema started talking through the architect bit! He got confused and decided to switch off and ruin it for everyone else! 'what's going on?' he was saying, 'shut up and listen' is what i thought! I think it was a lot to take in to be fair, but I wonder how confused some were if they only watched the first film once and saw it as an action film then came to see the sequel and got that thrown at them?
The reviews are mixed because people aren't sure what it is trying to do. Be an action film which repeats effects from the first film but done bigger and better? Well it has to because the whole bullet time thing just is the matrix! On the otherhand, it is a film to think about, and cleverly makes you go see it again if you need questions answering, this is where some critics don't like it. They just want a simple action film. Well thats not what the matrix is about.
However, I do like the fact that it has something for everyone.
I'm rambling!

Bring on the final one...which claims to answer all the questions, and did anyone stay till the end of the credits?? They show a trailer for the next one, and it is looking damn good! Both times, I was sat there in an empty cinema with my friends. We must spread the word that there is a trailer!

Originally posted by "Foxxx"

or the concept of him being woken and unplugged from the Matrix
But has he been unplugged? If so, how does he have special powers?

Originally posted by "Mike"

or the concept of him being woken and unplugged from the Matrix
But has he been unplugged? If so, how does he have special powers?

well indeed! I was talking from the point of view of watching the first film and not the second. Obviously all is not as it seems now. I am still trying to decide whether the real world is real or whether they are still in the matrix. But as far as the first film went, he was unplugged from the matrix and had his muscles trained as he had never used them before. If he has actually been unplugged, his special powers were supposed to be there because he is the one. However, we know now that he isn't! He was told that he was in order to control him. It gets confusing. I am interested by the fact that he was able to use his powers in the 'real world' although it put him in a coma. The next film is supposed to be set in the burnt out real world's surface. Is that part of the matrix? or real? If they are in the matrix still, how do they plug themselves into the matrix from the matrix? When they die in the matrix, they die in the ship where they are plugged in. Are there two of them existing at the same time? Questions questions!

Also, I am interested by the fact that the oracle told trinity she would fall in love with the one in the first film and she did, can love be controlled in this way? Neo's love for trinity is also a key to the anomaly. I am assuming that Neo did not choose the door he did this time, in the previous versions of the matrix since this love was not there. Any thoughts anyone?

Originally posted by "Foxxx"

I am interested by the fact that he was able to use his powers in the 'real world' although it put him in a coma.
Which I think means that it's still part of the matrix, or at least a matrix. Perhaps there are many matrices?

The final film will hopefully put our minds at rest....... btw who is going to play the part of the Oracle now the actress is dead?

I don't know! I read that they did have to change what they had in mind rather than re-shoot it with someone else since they used her in reloaded. The trailer for revolutions has her voice in it but it could be someone else doing her voice. Or maybe she will look different, after all programmes could change their look I guess!

The oracle is played by onther actress, I cant remember her name, she has the same style as the old one. foxxx, why do you think that neo isnt "the one"?? I dont agree with this matrix within matrix theory, I think that neo being able to stop the sentinals in the real world is to do with him joining with smith and him touching the source. i think he'll be able to hack into the matrix without the use of any broadcasting in revolutions. The matrix is supposed to be a simulacra. "The simulacrum is never what hides the truth- it is truth that hides the fact that there is none. The simulacrum is true" So i think a simulacra created to hide a simulcra, is rubbish!! why would it need to be done?

I thought the trailer at the end of the film was poor, the one at the end of "enter the matrix" is better. 8)

Originally posted by "paulend"

The oracle is played by onther actress, I cant remember her name, she has the same style as the old one. foxxx, why do you think that neo isnt "the one" ??

I didn't say that, you are misquoting me! :) I said (or meant) that we have been told that he isn't the one in the second film. The architect tells him that he was told he was the one in order to control him. His 'purpose' was to end up with the architect in the room where he has to make a choice, so they told him he was the one to create his path there. This is what we have been told so far. I'm not saying he isn't the one. He may well be or he may well not be! In the first film he was told he wasn't the one on purpose, but then it turned out that he was because he believed in himself. So he may well have been told what he has in this film, for another agenda.
"She told you exactly what you needed to hear, that's all. Neo, sooner or later you're going to realize, just as I did, that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"

As for the matrix vs the real world or a matrix within a matrix (which is there as another form of control so the 'free' people think they have the choice to be free), I still have not decided yet. I'm going to see it again next week with all these thoughts in my mind and really listen closely to the narative. However, I think that we will all be unsure until we see the next one! I think that it has been made this way, we aren't supposed to be able to work it out until we see the next one. For now we can only philosophise and have our on theories.

Originally posted by "Foxxx"

The oracle is played by onther actress, I cant remember her name, she has the same style as the old one. foxxx, why do you think that neo isnt "the one" ??

I didn't say that, you are misquoting me! :) I said (or meant) that we have been told that he isn't the one in the second film. The architect tells him that he was told he was the one in order to control him.

I opologise, I misunderstood. where abouts in the second film are we told that neo is not the one? the architect actually refers to neo as "the one". What is your definition of being "the one"? do you feel that because the prophecy was not true that neo should not be refered to as "the one" but rather the anomaly? 8)

I waited until after the credits of the Matrix Reloaded to see the trailer for the 3rd fim and I was a bit disappointed too. Maybe I was hoping for too much! I wanted some hints to some answers to all these questions we've been debating but it was just flashes of scenes from the 3rd film so you don't really get any "help" with all questions that we're left with from the second film! :?:

Here's hoping the 3rd film gives us some answers and won't leave me feeling cheated! I think Agent Smith is going to be important in some way... And despite what I write about wanting answers from the 3rd film I've got a feeling it'll still leave us with stuff to debate!?

As a film i thought it was quite good, but as a sequel i thought it was quite poor. On its own, Reloaded is a pretty decent movie with some awesome special affects, but it dosnt compare to the first film. I thought the way it ended was quite crap aswell. leaving us like that...:(

ah well..just means we need to go back and see the third one now ;)

bringing this thread back to the top again.....well I've seen the third one now and WOW....amazing, questions answered, fantastic! Don't want to give too much away for those who haven't seen it yet. I'll start a new post or something for us to talk about our conclusions on Revolutions. It is interesting reading the views we came up with after reloaded in this thread. Well I know exactly what happens now!

Wow, gonna go see it again! I suspect a lot of people are going to slag it off though as they may miss the point and find some scenes slow and full of conversation (some people and critics didn't like that with the first and the second one! but in my opinion it's the whole point of the trilogy). If you watch it for the action, it's got some great action scenes in it so should keep most happy.