Rzaa Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 So what? If you look through the totality of scientific knowledge you can cherry pick facts which coincide with the beliefs of just about any faith if you really want to, that doesn’t mean that science necessarily backs up any of them. Then why don't people try to do this with other religious scripture? Then they can say well it’s nothing special. If it were only one or two things then you might have an argument to make but its not. There are in fact hundreds of these things that have come to light only recently once science has advanced see: http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php "After that He shaped the earth like an egg, whence He caused to spring forth the water thereof, and the pasture thereof." (79:30-2) What would that verse mean to a bunch of desert Arabs? What would any of them mean? What does the Bible say about the shape of the earth? Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds.” If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to “the earth's farthest bounds,” but this is impossible on a spherical earth. Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.” Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 no what i would describe as b*****ks is how people want to go to war over their so called beliefs. Well in the 20th century, which most historians agree was the bloodiest on record, the 'beliefs' for which war were fought were all about democracy, capitalism, communism, fascism etc. Do you extend the same description of b*****ks to all of these beliefs ? Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 From the events of recent years not a great deal of respect for life has been shown by people following Islam. Do you describe the cowardly murder of innocent people as showing great importance to life? What makes it all the worse, for me at any rate, is not that the cowards consider themsleves to be going to an eternity of paradise and sex (which as an aim is disgraceful in its self) but that they consider that the ones they murder go an eternity oif hellfire and damnation. How can any sane, rational person consider this to be gods will? You are suffering from the same selective amnesia that you exhibit on every thread. More people have been killed in the name of 'democracy' and 'liberation' than have ever been killed in the name of Islam. As for cowardly, again as usual we have to disagree. It is far more cowardly taking a life when your own is quite safe than taking lives when you will with most certainty loose your own. Simply using the words sane and rational doesn't somehow mean you are sane or rational.... Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I would. All brain washing, from birth, has as much value as a Pot Noodle. But, at least, you can throw that away without fear of reprisal. and what about 'Democracy' ? More people have been killed in the 20th century in the name of 'Democracy' or 'Freedom' than have been killed in the name of 'religion'. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Maybe just a slight whiff of menace but then maybe I'm a little oversensitive. Thats one of your ailments Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rzaa Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 67:5 And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame. In this verse it’s claimed that stars were created by Allah to decorate the sky and also for him to throw at devils, this is hardly compatible with modern day scientific knowledge. Firstly the Quran is not a book of Science. Secondly that is not what that verse is talking about, you should read all the other verses in the Quran that talk about stars (lamps in the sky are referring to stars) and the universe and its creation. "And indeed We adorned the heaven of the world with lamps and We made them missiles against the satans and We have prepared for them the punishment of the blaze" 67:5 The following is an excerpt of commentary on this ayah, from Tafsir Ibn Kathir: This refers to the stars which have been placed in the heavens, some moving and some stationary. The pronoun `them' in His statement, "and We have made them'' is the same type of statement as the stars being referred to as lamps. This does not mean that they are actually missiles, because the stars in the sky are not thrown. Rather, it is the meteors beneath them that are thrown and they are taken from the stars. And Allah knows best. Qatadah said, "These stars were only created for three purposes: Allah created them as adornment for the heaven (sky), as missiles for the devils and as signs for navigation. Therefore, whoever seeks to interpret any other meanings for them other than these, then verily he has spoken with his own opinion, he has lost his portion and burdened himself with that which he has no knowledge of." Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim both recorded this statement How is the second part un-scientific? Science cannot prove nor disprove the existence of the Devil. The Quran will never contradict with established science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 This is blasphemy surely! The idea of calling religious beliefs the equivalent of a Pot Noodle. Appalling. The Pot Noodle may be a bit naff, but it exists and hasn`t, as far as I know, caused the deaths of millions of innocent people in the name of a deity. All hail the Noodle. Yes but you never know what those darn E numbers are doing to people. z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Then why don't people try to do this with other religious scripture? They do, there’s loads of books & ‘documentaries’ out there which cherry pick science with aim of backing up the bible, a quick google will show you hundreds of site which do the same. Then they can say well it’s nothing special. If it were only one or two things then you might have an argument to make but its not. There are in fact hundreds of these things that have come to light only recently once science has advanced see: http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php "After that He shaped the earth like an egg, whence He caused to spring forth the water thereof, and the pasture thereof." (79:30-2) What would that verse mean to a bunch of desert Arabs? What would any of them mean? What does the Bible say about the shape of the earth? Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king “saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds.” If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to “the earth's farthest bounds,” but this is impossible on a spherical earth. Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their glory.” Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. Yes the bible is a very silly book I’m aware of this, things is so is the Koran: 18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. So here the Koran states that somebody actually travelled to a muddy spring into which the sun set that is scientifically inaccurate in so many ways I hardly even know where to begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rzaa Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 They do, there’s loads of books & ‘documentaries’ out there which cherry pick science with aim of backing up the bible, a quick google will show you hundreds of site which do the same. Yes the bible is a very silly book I’m aware of this, things is so is the Koran: 18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. So here the Koran states that somebody actually travelled to a muddy spring into which the sun set that is scientifically inaccurate in so many ways I hardly even know where to begin What does the sun look like at the beach (or some other place with water) when it is setting? "he found it (the sun) setting in a muddy spring". It is talking about how the sun appeared to this person NOT how God makes the sun set in water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rzaa Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 They do, there’s loads of books & ‘documentaries’ out there which cherry pick science with aim of backing up the bible, a quick google will show you hundreds of site which do the same. But even if there is one error then they can not claim that the whole thing is from god (as they claim), and there are many errors in the bible and I’ve just pointed out one of them (above). If there is something that coincides with science then sure that thing could be from god. But the bible also has the words of prophets, commentators, scribes and many other people. The Quran is the full, unaltered word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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