tinfoilhat   11 #1 Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) When the latest baker or guest house owner gets fined/sued for refusing gay people service, people rightly say "serves you right for being a bigot". They are breaking the law.  If memory serves though, people lost they're jobs when a BNP membership list was leaked. Playing devils advocate for a second, is that any better or worse than refusing someone whose "lifestyle" is at polar opposite to your religious beliefs?  I've been asked to supply equipment in the past to what I found out was a fairly extreme - in my view anyway - religious group. If I had refused them, would I have been breaking the law, but not broke the law if I had refused, say, the EDL the same stuff? I was asked to produce a flyer years back for strip club - I couldnt use stock images because using them in connection with the adult entertainment industry was not allowed.  I know laws are their for reason but how big is the grey area around them? Edited July 23, 2018 by tinfoilhat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
choogling   14 #2 Posted July 23, 2018 When the latest baker or guest house owner gets fined/sued for refusing gay people service, people rightly say "serves you right for being a bigot". They are breaking the law.  If memory serves though, people lost they're jobs when a BNP membership list was leaked. Playing devils advocate for a second, is that any better or worse than refusing someone whose "lifestyle" is at polar opposite to your religious beliefs?  I've been asked to supply equipment in the past to what I found out was a fairly extreme - in my view anyway - religious group. If I had refused them, would I have been breaking the law, but not broke the law if I had refused, say, the EDL the same stuff? I was asked to produce a flyer years back for strip club - I could use stock images because using them in connection with the adult entertainment industry was not allowed.  I know laws are their for reason but how big is the grey area around them? I'm with the baker and guest house owner on this one, a business should be allowed to serve or not serve anyone without giving a reason just like a pub landlord can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SnailyBoy   10 #3 Posted July 23, 2018 Are you suggesting that sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice in your example?  ---------- Post added 23-07-2018 at 17:13 ----------  I'm with the baker and guest house owner on this one, a business should be allowed to serve or not serve anyone without giving a reason just like a pub landlord can.  So when the same sex couple ask why they're refused service, what should the guest house owner say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
choogling   14 #4 Posted July 23, 2018 Are you suggesting that sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice in your example? ---------- Post added 23-07-2018 at 17:13 ----------   So when the same sex couple ask why they're refused service, what should the guest house owner say?  sorry I don't want to serve you goodbye Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SnailyBoy   10 #5 Posted July 23, 2018 sorry I don't want to serve you goodbye  Interesting business model.  Let's say an heterosexual black couple is refused service, what does the guest house owner say when asked why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #6 Posted July 23, 2018 Are you suggesting that sexual orientation is a lifestyle choice in your example? ---------- Post added 23-07-2018 at 17:13 ----------   So when the same sex couple ask why they're refused service, what should the guest house owner say?  I'M not suggesting that but I know plenty of religious groups think that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   865 #7 Posted July 23, 2018 I'm with the baker and guest house owner on this one, a business should be allowed to serve or not serve anyone without giving a reason just like a pub landlord can. thats a completely different arguement, generally pub landlords DONT base who they wont serve on a persons lifestyle or sexual persuasion.  Its normally based on 2 things.  1: license laws, ie:- not selling to people who look, act already under the influence, or may be driving. 2: likelyhood of trouble, thats why occasionly one may "ban" football tops, or trainers, or large groups of say one sex (like all male groups) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #8 Posted July 23, 2018 thats a completely different arguement, generally pub landlords DONT base who they wont serve on a persons lifestyle or sexual persuasion. Its normally based on 2 things.  1: license laws, ie:- not selling to people who look, act already under the influence, or may be driving. 2: likelyhood of trouble, thats why occasionly one may "ban" football tops, or trainers, or large groups of say one sex (like all male groups)  Well they might think a group of young black men might cause trouble and refuse to serve them.  Take your pick there Mel racism or ageism  Why can pubs and clubs get away with it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SnailyBoy   10 #9 Posted July 23, 2018 I'M not suggesting that but I know plenty of religious groups think that.  That's why the business that think that end up in court. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
choogling   14 #10 Posted July 23, 2018 thats a completely different arguement, generally pub landlords DONT base who they wont serve on a persons lifestyle or sexual persuasion. Its normally based on 2 things.  1: license laws, ie:- not selling to people who look, act already under the influence, or may be driving. 2: likelyhood of trouble, thats why occasionly one may "ban" football tops, or trainers, or large groups of say one sex (like all male groups)  they do not have to serve anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SnailyBoy   10 #11 Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) they do not have to serve anyone.  Not serving people tends to get questions asked, especially when it appears to have no reasonable reason. e.g extremely intoxicated customer in a pub would be a reasonable reason to refuse service.  When those questions get responses, that's when the real reasons tend to surface.  Hence the court cases. Edited July 23, 2018 by SnailyBoy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #12 Posted July 23, 2018 That's why the business that think that end up in court.  The law is pretty clear on race and sexual orientation. It's the grey areas that interest me more. Can a business discrimate on the basis of political leanings? Religion is tougher still - few would dream of denying the harmless c of e church down the road services but would you bake a "congratulations on your gay conversion ceremony" cake for someone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...