aliceBB Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 The English dictionary. You are wrong about that. The OED includes 'until' as one meaning of 'while': http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/while I didn't make the rules. Besides, I was only replying with examples in the spirit of the thread, as opposed to a deep and meaningful debate about etymology. Who do you think makes the rules? And if all you want to do is trot out examples of language use which you think demonstrate other people's stupidity, why are you still engaged in this discussion with me? Clothes are not an integral part of a person that developed through childhood. Actually, they are. They are an expression of identity and personality, which are formed and develop throughout a person's life. A 25 year old who has lived all their life in Sheffield and suddenly decides to emulate American pronunciation will always sound daft to me, but it's clear we're not going to agree so let's just agree to disagree in that. Whatever. So you're OK with the use of the third person plural possessive adjective ('their') in relation to a singular subject ('A 25 year old who has...' etc)? That's not in your rule book, surely?! Hoist by your own petard, I'd say.... (Back to farts again!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 There are big differences in dialect and accent in my home town, just as there are here. When I was at school in the 50s and 60s, it didn't matter how we spoke at home, we were all expected to speak 'properly' in class. For example 'I were and we was' was frowned on. Our teachers were aware that how we presented ourselves was important for our futures. In hindsight, I think it was helpful. Given that communication is so important, being able to adapt ones speech appropriately must be a positive. I don't mean we should lose our regional accents, although really broad ones and strong dialects can be really hard to understand for anyone outside the speakers locality or background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 You are wrong about that. The OED includes 'until' as one meaning of 'while': http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/while Yes, with a special "Northern English" note. It's not standard English usage. Who do you think makes the rules? Not you. And if all you want to do is trot out examples of language use which you think demonstrate other people's stupidity, why are you still engaged in this discussion with me? Because you keep replying to me. Actually, they are. They are an expression of identity and personality, which are formed and develop throughout a person's life. Actually, they're not. Clothes are not integral in the same way as speech. Whatever. So you're OK with the use of the third person plural possessive adjective ('their') in relation to a singular subject ('A 25 year old who has...' etc)? That's not in your rule book, surely?! Hoist by your own petard, I'd say.... (Back to farts again!) I'm okay with that, when it's deliberately gender unspecific. By the way, judging by the results of the poll, it looks like you're in a very slim minority. Since, by your own definition, language is defined by people, it looks like maybe it's you who is "hoist by your own petard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) There are big differences in dialect and accent in my home town, just as there are here. When I was at school in the 50s and 60s, it didn't matter how we spoke at home, we were all expected to speak 'properly' in class. For example 'I were and we was' was frowned on. Our teachers were aware that how we presented ourselves was important for our futures. In hindsight, I think it was helpful. Given that communication is so important, being able to adapt ones speech appropriately must be a positive. I don't mean we should lose our regional accents, although really broad ones and strong dialects can be really hard to understand for anyone outside the speakers locality or background. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. It's all about context. School is a formal context where you can practise all kinds of behaviour (including the way you speak and write) which will help you to reach your potential in life. It's different from home. ---------- Post added 17-11-2015 at 22:24 ---------- By the way, judging by the results of the poll, it looks like you're in a very slim minority. Does missing the point come naturally to you, or do you have to practise?! All that is revealed by the results of the poll is that a majority of people on this thread who bothered to respond think that 'would of' is 'not acceptable now'. As I've shown, that's meaningless since it ignores context. If the question were framed better, e.g. 'Is 'would of' acceptable in formal contexts such as journalism or job interviews'? then I would have been one of the first to vote 'No'. But it wasn't...so I didn't vote. Since, by your own definition, language is defined by people, it looks like maybe it's you who is "hoist by your own petard" Again.. read what I said! I'm ending my conversation with you now, as I'm bored by your simplistic view of the topic. I don't expect I'm the first nor will I be the last. I hope you don't have this effect on people in your real life. Good luck Edited November 17, 2015 by aliceBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiseOwl182 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Does missing the point come naturally to you, or do you have to practise?! All that is revealed by the results of the poll is that a majority of people on this thread who bothered to respond think that 'would of' is 'not acceptable now'. As I've shown, that's meaningless since it ignores context. If the question were framed better, e.g. 'Is 'would of' acceptable in formal contexts such as journalism or job interviews'? then I would have been one of the first to vote 'No'. But it wasn't...so I didn't vote. Again.. read what I said! Maybe you should create your own poll? Even if this poll specifically stated an "informal" context, the results would have been similar. The vast majority of people understand that "would of" is incorrect and that is why it won't "evolve" any time soon. ---------- Post added 17-11-2015 at 21:35 ---------- I'm ending my conversation with you now, as I'm bored by your simplistic view of the topic. I don't expect I'm the first nor will I be the last. I hope you don't have this effect on people in your real life. Good luck Since 97% disagree with you then I'm happy if my "simplistic" view bores your 3%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Between you and roots, and as a reader of the thread, I thought personally you had both raised the subject matter up a notch..it was getting rather interesting, but then as you suggested, in popped a bit of sanctimonious waffle. Thank you! I'd be interested to know what other people think about the way in which meanings of words change over time and in different contexts*. I bet most people can think of words/phrases from their childhood which meant one thing then, and something else now, or (currently) non-standard words/phrases which sound perfectly natural and 'right' in one context but not in another. (*'Tragedy', for example). Edited November 17, 2015 by aliceBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Another one that's been grinding my gristle lately, people using "are" instead of "our". Example: "I asked are Keith if he wanted to come with us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Another one that's been grinding my gristle lately, people using "are" instead of "our". Example: "I asked are Keith if he wanted to come with us" Is it ever written like that, or is it just down to the accent of the speaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Is it ever written like that, or is it just down to the accent of the speaker? I'm talking about written, just like "of" in the op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 ....also, people typing "as" in place of "has" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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