EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[panzer1 10]

Well David beckham, that multi millionaire that lives with his multi millionaire wife in America most of the time, has come out on the side of remain. Never has to queue for a house or doctors appt, his kids are set for life and will buy themselves into any job they want, are,nt they currently pushing one as a photographer and one as a singer.

So that's it they have so much in common with me and my family so I am changing my vote to remain:hihi:

[panzer1 10]

Got to admit cyclone that thought had crossed my mind too

[tzijlstra 11]

Okay, I work part time and earn just over 7k p.a. I've always thought the EU was all about big business and for them, keeping us in the EU provides an abundance of labour which in turn keeps wages low, isn't it in the interest of big business for us to stay in, obviously. My D.I.L is also on minimum wage she is a carer and has been working in the same job for over 10 years. My mum did the same job many years ago when it was deemed an important job and the salary was good, what's happened since then?

 

I'm also fed up of the remain campaigns constant arrogant sneering attitude towards people who aren't big earners, an example was a thread deleted last night.

 

Interestingly I just read this which kind of fits with what I believe.

 

 

 

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/about-us/

 

Dear crazybaby, what has the EU done for workers.

 

It is an illusion of some of the unions to believe that being outside of the EU is going to protect the rights of workers better. The simple fact is that you live in a country with a binary political system. Either Labour is in power, chances are workers rights get improved, or Conservative is, chances are workers rights get diminished.

 

The simple fact is this - the UK is, by far, the most market-oriented large economy in the EU. It is the UK who was firmly in front in the EU at the time (just after the Cold War ended) in discussing opportunities for a free trade agreement with the US (what is now known as TTIP). It is the US who are stopping free distribution of the consultation papers on this topic, they made very clear that they do not want open consultation or the deal is of. The EU accepts that (despite leaking parts of it in 2014, intentionally or unintentionally) but an ever increasing number of MEPs are becoming very twitchy about this subject and chances that the Council can force this through are diminishing by the month.

 

Leaving the EU paves the way for the Brits to simply copy TTIP and sign it off as individuals with the US. Unchecked, unchallenged and quite possibly with the US setting the agenda.

 

With that as the background, can you tell me again, why do you think leaving the EU is going to improve your situation?

 

This isn't about class-warfare by the way, this is being honest about some of the prospects the UK faces outside of the EU. It is people like you who will be hit hardest by claims of 'we will simply sign free trade agreements with other countries'. Think about all factors involved before rashly coming to a decision to leave.

[bagger 10]

Well David beckham, that multi millionaire that lives with his multi millionaire wife in America most of the time, has come out on the side of remain. Never has to queue for a house or doctors appt, his kids are set for life and will buy themselves into any job they want, are,nt they currently pushing one as a photographer and one as a singer.

So that's it they have so much in common with me and my family so I am changing my vote to remain:hihi:

 

Like Samantha Cameron's article in the Daily Mail a few weeks ago where she tells us she's voting Remain to protect her children's future. If there were any kids in Britain with a protected future it's her two, no matter what happens her children's future is secure. Stupid woman.

[bagger 10]

That's a bogus statistic if ever I heard one. So people are accepting free food, Doesn't mean they're poorer than before, just that others are more generous.

 

 

 

Less free money for people that other earned. But more of their own money to keep. A much better arrangement by any standard.

 

 

 

Gone up in real terms every single year.

 

 

 

Rubbish.

 

People can't just accept free food from food banks, they have to meet a specific criteria and be referred by agencies such as social services and GPs. People who find themselves short of bread at the end of the week can't just go and get free food, you have to be poverty stricken with your back against the wall to qualify.

[tzijlstra 11]

What were Vote Leave' handlers and legal eagles thinking? (were they thinking?)

 

They weren't thinking beyond their own ambitions to take the pluche, that much is clear. I heard rumblings in the Netherlands where a Dutch labour-party member of parliament is considering putting in a motion to claim all the rebate back off the UK in case of Brexit, she is completely angered by the stupidly repeated 350 million a week claims. This idea is gaining traction - it is the Dutch, Germans and some other EU nations who paid the bill for the rebate, on the understanding that the UK would remain a member of the EU.

 

The Dutch fear that Brexit will lead to economic damage to their economy (the referendum alone already is doing to a degree) and feel the UK Brexit camp is solely responsible for that. I don't think it will come that far, but it is yet another example of how the UK is upsetting its future prospects of negotiating a beneficial exit. The Dutch will not simply roll over and say: Of course you can stay in the single market!

 

(Cue: Who cares about the Dutch!)

 

(Answer: All those companies that get their goods through the deep sea harbour of Rotterdam).

[panzer1 10]

Tzij, will openly admit I know not a lot about the matter but are you saying the Dutch would punish us by refusing to let us use Rotterdam hence making us use another port in another country, such a port may welcome that trade.

 

---------- Post added 21-06-2016 at 09:30 ----------

 

Also the rebate they want back, is that for this year or all preceding years

[tzijlstra 11]

The leaflet doesn't say they support Brexit, it says they will continue to trade in the UK if we vote to leave the EU, claims that were made by each of the companies representatives and widely reported in the press and on the news, including the BBC.

 

Yes, and continuing to trade in the UK is the same as continuing to manufacture in the UK?

 

 

Oh wait...

 

That is step one of the withdrawal process. As for the claim - you really think that they put those logos on, not expecting people to think: Oh hey, if those companies are for leave than it will be alright? It is about expectations, not the fine print.

[unbeliever 10]

You have some interesting attitudes for someone who (I believe) works in the public sector, in an area that many Taxpayers' Alliance types would consider to be a waste of money.

 

How's your theory of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution" coming along, by the way?

 

I offer my services to the state because they find them useful. I policy changes and I'm no longer of use, I'm happy to go into the private sector where I'll get a lot more money and autonomy.

I look at what I think is best for the Uk as a whole.

 

It us fundamentally wrong, on every conceivable level, to collect money from people who can barely support themselves thereby arranging that they can't; then give it back to them with the words "government money" scribbled on it and pretend you've done them a service.

Handouts should be for people who, despite their best efforts, genuinely cannot support themselves. Everybody else on low incomes can be supported with decent, efficient public services and more importantly: not confiscating the money they earned in the first place.

[tzijlstra 11]

Tzij, will openly admit I know not a lot about the matter but are you saying the Dutch would punish us by refusing to let us use Rotterdam hence making us use another port in another country, such a port may welcome that trade.

 

---------- Post added 21-06-2016 at 09:30 ----------

 

Also the rebate they want back, is that for this year or all preceding years

 

Right, time to cut through the simplicity that is in the Leave camp, sorry for the long post.

 

No, I am saying that the Netherlands are in fact a very important trading partner for the UK. In terms of trade it is the third biggest partner for the UK after Germany and the US. (So even bigger than China). People on here, in the past, have said: Who cares about the Netherlands. Well, the simple fact is that the UK should.

 

I also said that the Netherlands are increasingly annoyed with the way the Leave campaign is saying things that are simply untrue (also called lying). Which means that if there was a power-shift post-Brexit (which is likely) in British politics, than the Dutch won't be so forthcoming with niceties and giveaways. They will go to the negotiating table with a steely face and plenty of demands.

 

That is how politics work Panzer1, I realise that is not something that 'common people' take on board, but it is a very definite impact on claims by the Brexit camp that everything will be fine on Brexit. It won't, they assume only from their own position, but negotiation takes two sides.

 

Finally, Article 50, which describes what will happen on Brexit, means that the EU will have A LOT of say in what happens, they will be in a stronger negotiating position, in fact, the UK can go to the EU and say: We want single market, no more free movement of people, and the EU will most likely say: Tough. Or they might say - you can have some trade agreement, but you pay all the rebate back to the memberstates that have funded your reduced membership fee. (all, dating back to day one). That is entirely up to them, and it will be up to the UK to decide whether that is what they want.

 

So there we have it, Leave make claims, one way or another, without any foundation, hoping to win this referendum, desperate to do so. But the reality does not corroborate with their promises. People like you somehow believe Boris Johnson, Gove, Farage and co are not doing this for their own gains. They are, that is the nature of populist politics. They are either too stupid to estimate the ramifications of what they are doing, or so blinded by ambition that they will sell porkies to the British public so that they can take control of the country (we want sovereignty... uhmmm yes, to do what the hell you like).

 

I say this again: Negotiating an exit takes two parties and current law makes it very clear who is the upper party in those negotiations.

[unbeliever 10]

This argument that we should apologise for conducting ourselves in a democratic fashion because it creates economic uncertainly is sheer lunacy.

I think those making that case ought to have a good long think about it.

[panzer1 10]

Just watched the sky news section on possible Brexit consequences, which is repeated at 11.30am, this is about the most balanced item on the threats/ promises from both sides that I have seen.

Got to admit project fear was even getting to me but having watched this I feel a lot more confident about still voting out, the best bit was about the possible recession explained in lay man terms.

Worth a watch.