salsafan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Yeah, yeah, we've establised that it is probably legal (I'm no expert) but it doesn't make it right. Sharia law is offensive to most people and solicitors who help Muslims facilitate their discriminatory nonsense aren't that much better than the Muslims doing it.. The fact that there will be circumstances where a will is drafted that complies with Shria law without discriminating doesn't change the fact that Sharia law promotes discrimination. Think of this from another business and legal perspective. I showed you the Equality Act link. Here it is again. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents It actually is quite convoluted to be honest, but if you read it slowly and relook at certain areas, they can indeed compound to be quite a tight set of rules, which covers majority of circumstances in the UK alone. Approaching this from a professional perspective, I see that the Law Society has every right to really publish a set of guidance so that their own members do not trip over and write it wrongly. In the Equality Act, it states that businesses, and "service providers" cannot actually discriminate against the followings: 5.Age 6.Disability 7.Gender reassignment 8.Marriage and civil partnership 9.Race 10.Religion or belief 11.Sex 12.Sexual orientation If they publish the guidelines, it really is to just cover themselves from a certain perspective really if you think about it. They have not actually changed any laws, nor have they changed the Equality Law. If anything it is the actual Equality Act which is driving them to be more accurate and a little bit more diligent to safe-proof any potential and possible discrimination exerted on their side whilst providing services to the general public. That is how I see it. In terms of discrimination and prejudices between people, this still happens in real life. Just that one cannot do so in the name of the representation of a company, a local council, and so forth. There are indeed some interesting angle if you read it and see. There is something about buildings as well and how they must be treated and nobody can discriminate you from walking into a premise. Edited March 25, 2014 by salsafan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) The legal profession is sharing 'best practice' information to help solicitors draft Sharia compliant wills that promote discriminatory beliefs and practices. Instead of facilitating the implementation of discriminatory beliefs and practice I say we should be challenging discriminatory attitudes and making changes to our laws help prevent it. I'll ask again... don't you think we should be challenging discrimination instead of accomodating it? I think we should avoid approaching this issue with bwana's missionary zeal. For all we know all the adherents of Islam might be perfectly happy to be 'discriminated' against, until it affects you I think it's not a lot of our business. Edited March 25, 2014 by boyfriday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My bold= That is the same as the Muslim extremists saying they have a problem with non Muslims because the non Muslim practices offend their principles. Yes it is and they are entitled to have a problem with it. If they don't like how we live or our laws then they are entitled to make a case for change just like any other group. If they win sufficient support then they will effect change and if they can't then they won't... same rules for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The legal profession is sharing 'best practice' information to help solicitors draft Sharia compliant wills that promote discriminatory beliefs and practices. Instead of facilitating the implementation of discriminatory beliefs and practice I say we should be challenging discriminatory attitudes and making changes to our laws help prevent it. I'll ask again... don't you think we should be challenging discrimination instead of accomodating it? Oh, I cannot WAIT until Taoism is going to be introduced, it shall be SO much fun !!! Zamo, we're going to be jumping over fire bowls. You game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I think we should avoid approaching this issue without bwana's missionary zeal. For all we know all the adherents of Islam might be perfectly happy to be 'discriminated' against, until it affects you I think it's not a lot of our business. Society has a duty to protect the vulnerable and weak from people who would exploit, discriminate and abuse them. We need to be proactive in fulfilling this obligation. It is very much our business. ---------- Post added 25-03-2014 at 20:46 ---------- Oh, I cannot WAIT until Taoism is going to be introduced, it shall be SO much fun !!! Zamo, we're going to be jumping over fire bowls. You game ? You didn't answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 ... You didn't answer the question. Sorry, I do apologise, I got carried away again cos I was laughing so much and I almost fell off my sofa. Yes, what was the question again ? ---------- Post added 25-03-2014 at 20:52 ---------- Society has a duty to protect the vulnerable and weak from people who would exploit, discriminate and abuse them. We need to be proactive in fulfilling this obligation. It is very much our business.... And "society" has responded, by providing shelter for those in need, by providing guidance in finding work, and by providing benefits too, and also guidance on how one needs to raise their child. There is also guidance on how to marry and how to divorce, and how to open a business, and how to deal with illnesses. Why do you still think that the vulnerable is not looked after ? If anything, the vulnerable is looked after ever so much ! Maybe too much in some cases, but I shall digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Sorry, I do apologise, I got carried away again cos I was laughing so much and I almost fell off my sofa. Yes, what was the question again ? ---------- Post added 25-03-2014 at 20:52 ---------- And "society" has responded, by providing shelter for those in need, by providing guidance in finding work, and by providing benefits too, and also guidance on how one needs to raise their child. There is also guidance on how to marry and how to divorce, and how to open a business, and how to deal with illnesses. Why do you still think that the vulnerable is not looked after ? If anything, the vulnerable is looked after ever so much ! Maybe too much in some cases, but I shall digress. Sharia law advocates discriminating against people based on gender, religious status, illegitamacy etc. The Law Society has issued guidance to help solicitors advice clients how to draft wills that comply with this discrimination. Do you support this discrimination or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Sharia law advocates discriminating against people based on gender, religious status, illegitamacy etc. The Law Society has issued guidance to help solicitors advice clients how to draft wills that comply with this discrimination. Do you support this discrimination or not? Sorry, I do not agree with that. You are actually looking at it from a wrong perspective. Sharia Law is NOT the sole legal system in this country, and that is why it does not apply in the way that it does in some countries. In this country, we have Common Law (which has taken years to define), along with Statutory Law (?) (I was reading this the other day for another thread.) So unless you are saying that there is a move to overthrow the entire legal system, I do not think that it impacts you or changes the way you live any time soon enough. A country cannot change its legal system so easily. Maybe if the UN actually agrees. Even in war torn countries, when they rebuild an entire country, the UN needs to follow International Law to build it back up from scratch. Maybe you think that it can happen in this country by a democratic vote, but it cannot. Because if it does, it will actually impact so many more countries who is also using Common Law as part of their legal system too. So because of that, it certainly and definitely cannot change any time soon. Now, as to the Sharia Law as part of a religious practice within this country, how does that integrate into the legal system. It had always been part of the legal system, but it seems that some areas are really being tweaked a little bit here and there, that is all. Guidance and recommendation and advice is not wrong, it just makes clear what the boundaries are and how it can be applied. Sometimes you see these charities existing to provide such support and guidance within the legal boundaries, so that many businesses and companies can indeed use this as a base guidance. Even when HR is confused of a situation in their employment law, they certainly can either indeed use some of the references provided by the government's portals to reinforce their own legal interpretation, or that they can indeed use solicitors and lawyers to recheck their own internal HR policies as to not violate the law itself. And in terms of the legality and interpretation of things. There had always been these laws, but not everybody or not all companies necessarily interpret it well and really adjust to this. Some companies are being more and more visible in showing that they are compliant, and they try to enforce this throughout their own company as a set of core values for their own employees. The Millenium Goal has forced companies like Deloitte and Touche to really now employ more than 40% of their own workforce to be women. Because when the majority were men, it had a certain inequality which reduced the way it operated. It means or if you read between the lines, previously the company was not able to comply with the law with its existing workforce. Maybe this explains why so many were indeed fired in the end and were retrained or literally hired because they are female. Edited March 25, 2014 by salsafan Mistyping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Our laws are always being circumvented by the unprincipled e.g. lawyers and accountant devising tax avoidance schemes for their unprincipled clients. So, yes, I do think we should try to restrict people from having 'access' to legal get-rounds and loopholes that allow our principles and values to be undermined. Don't you? ---------- Post added 25-03-2014 at 20:02 ---------- Yes, I have a problem with Muslims when their practices offend my principles, values, sense of fair play and when their nonsense threatens to influence the state and our laws which I believe should be religiously neutral. And yes again.... we can discriminate under both Sharia and English law. But the difference is that we challenge it when it happens under English Law and seek ways to tighten up our laws to prevent it. Sharia law doesn't do that because discrimination is often the intention of their laws. We shouldn't be lowering ourselves to their standards. 1. We dont seek to challenge it in English law because discrimination when you are giving away your own property is perfectly acceptable. ---------- Post added 25-03-2014 at 21:15 ---------- Sharia law advocates discriminating against people based on gender, religious status, illegitamacy etc. The Law Society has issued guidance to help solicitors advice clients how to draft wills that comply with this discrimination. Do you support this discrimination or not? I dont mind it becayse its perfectly legal under existing english law to give your property to whom you want. No business of the state. You seem to think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) By the way, you "may" think that this current set of laws is in its current state because of the terrorism and the previous racism that has occurred. Which is true to some level, BUT, as UK is part of the UN, as a country, we also pledged to meet the millennium goals too. http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=7329 It means that we need to ensure that our laws also can indeed be interpreted and provide the support to meet these goals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Development_Goals I was actually looking at the gender equality one and wondered what companies are doing to achieve this. So that is why it is still in my mind somewhat. Edited March 25, 2014 by salsafan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts