Heads up to any bikers - Motorcycle parking opposite Peace Gardens

[ap123 10]

So which racks are we still allowed to use besides the city hall one? Leopold square, peace gardens and crucible are all out, so what about the 2 on norfolk row, the ones on the road just off the moor, the ones near the disabled bays in Meadowhall? and how do you actually get into the ones behind the City Hall, Im guessing you have to approach it from West Street, but its all one way traffic and bus gates around there.

 

 

like some else has said the ones in meadowhall are on private land but are you aware of the motorcycle parking area at meadowhall?

 

it is in the lower yellow carpark not far from the parent bays next to the portacabin. its a great spot as it is enclosed by railings so safe from cars but also has plenty of stuff the chain up to, from the railings to purpose fitted bars. its also next to the escalator and the lifts so the are generally a few people about.

 

---------- Post added 12-12-2012 at 22:38 ----------

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads/travel/driving/parking/motorcycle-parking.html

 

have a look at this, i have actually seen some of these rings. pretty certain the car park on the old fire station has them.

[Planner1 442]

Slightly off topic but Planner1 seems to know a lot in this field so why are motorbikes allowed to use bus lanes but can't actually go through the gates. I've been told its because of the signs, which seems a bit strange

From memory it stemmed from an strange adjudication decision about the Hillsborough Tram Gates, where the adjudicator said that even though the signs and lines were fully legally complaint (they'd been authorised by Department for Transport), he thought it would be fairer to have an extra road making which mentioned the exempted categorises of vehicles (this wasn't required by the signs adn lines regulations). The restrictions on size of roadmarkngs meant that less categories of vehicles could be exempted from the restrictions, which meant the signs had to be changed too. So, motorcycles were taken off the exempted list for the gates, but they can still use the lanes.

[alas_alas 10]

From memory it stemmed from an strange adjudication decision about the Hillsborough Tram Gates, where the adjudicator said that even though the signs and lines were fully legally complaint (they'd been authorised by Department for Transport), he thought it would be fairer to have an extra road making which mentioned the exempted categorises of vehicles (this wasn't required by the signs adn lines regulations). The restrictions on size of roadmarkngs meant that less categories of vehicles could be exempted from the restrictions, which meant the signs had to be changed too. So, motorcycles were taken off the exempted list for the gates, but they can still use the lanes.

 

This is just bizarre doublespeak. There is absolutely no logic in that argument:

 

1. Exempted vehicles allowed according to signs (inc. motorbikes) on lanes.

2. Signs changed because of size restrictions on signs on bus gates.

therefore 3. Motorbikes allowed in lanes but not through bus gate.

 

Where is the consistency in that thinking? The increasing complexity and arbitrariness of such rationales is the reason why people are so annoyed by their local council's approach to restrictions, regulations and ensuing fines.

 

The argument on bus lane and gate restrictions takes a similar logic to the argument that runs:

 

1. Motorcycles are classed as 'bicycles' according to vehicle tax classifications.

therefore 2. Motorcycles are bicycles.

therefore 3. Motorcycles can park in bicycle racks.

 

...to get back on topic

[Planner1 442]

This is just bizarre doublespeak. There is absolutely no logic in that argument:

 

1. Exempted vehicles allowed according to signs (inc. motorbikes) on lanes.

2. Signs changed because of size restrictions on signs on bus gates.

therefore 3. Motorbikes allowed in lanes but not through bus gate.

 

Where is the consistency in that thinking? The increasing complexity and arbitrariness of such rationales is the reason why people are so annoyed by their local council's approach to restrictions, regulations and ensuing fines.

 

The argument on bus lane and gate restrictions takes a similar logic to the argument that runs:

 

1. Motorcycles are classed as 'bicycles' according to vehicle tax classifications.

therefore 2. Motorcycles are bicycles.

therefore 3. Motorcycles can park in bicycle racks.

 

...to get back on topic

Personally I do not think the adjudicator's decision is logical.

 

The Council did appeal it, but, appeals against an adjudicator's decision are heard by........the same adjudicator who made the original decision! So, unsurprisingly, he agreed with his original decision.

 

The Council did consider taking it to judicial review, but it's expensive and time consuming and you might not win, and you can't enforce the restriction until the appeal is heard, so it was easiest to just change the signs and lines.

 

The signing for bus lanes and the legal orders which back the up, are separate and different to the ones for the bus gates. It did not make sense to ban motorcycles from al the lanes as well.

 

Re the cycle racks. it is not the fact that motorcycles are using a cycle rack that is the contravention. They are in contravention of a waiting restriction, which applies to all motor vehicles (and covers the whole of the highway, including the footpath)

[sammyBoy 10]

Re the cycle racks. it is not the fact that motorcycles are using a cycle rack that is the contravention. They are in contravention of a waiting restriction, which applies to all motor vehicles (and covers the whole of the highway, including the footpath)

 

I think the difficulty is because of the lack of signs. Had the provided racks stated that they were bicycle racks then what you are saying would be a lot more clear/ fairer.

 

If you look at the rack that you are saying is the only legal provision, behind the City Hall, there are two of the racks that appear opposite the Peace Gardens, a space, then there is a larger single structure, a space, then there is a small sign with a motorcycle parking symbol on it and immediately behind it a sign saying 'no parking at any time'.

 

I, and many others it would seem, took the provision of facilities to mean the permission to park. I was not aware of the City Hall provision to know that motorcycle only provisions would be signed as such and cycle provisions would not have any signs.

 

By parking my motorcycle behind the City Hall I am in contravention of a parking restriction but, I assume, exemption has been made by the provision of additional facilities - it was under this assumption that I parked in, what are only now being termed, bicycle racks previously.

 

The other day I saw a motorcycle parked in the first double rack behind the City Hall that is the same as the Peace Garden racks (ie not the big one, so assumedly a bicycle rack?) would that have been ticketed?

 

I have appealed to the ticket I was issued, pretty much on the above grounds, but have not heard anything back, or even had acknowledgement of my appeal - does anyone know how long it takes to get a response?

[alas_alas 10]

I think the difficulty is because of the lack of signs. Had the provided racks stated that they were bicycle racks then what you are saying would be a lot more clear/ fairer.

 

Is it not quite clear that these are bicycle racks? They're on the pavement in public places, therefore it would be safe to assume that they are not for the use of motorbikes. The bike racks all over the city (outside the city centre) - for instance those outside most supermarkets - are clearly not intended for the parking of motorbikes, and I don't see them being used as motorbike parking. Yet in the city centre, motorcyclists think the cycle racks are fair game.

 

I think the evidence here (http://www.sfnr.org.uk/sheffield-fnr-on-facebook/2034-2/) suggests that the problem was getting beyond a joke for most cyclists in the city centre. There's one photo of the racks behind the Crucible where every rack bar one is taken up by motorbikes. These are intended for the parking of two bicycles per rack!

[sammyBoy 10]

There is a motorcycle parking rack behind the City Hall see: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Barker's+Pool,+Sheffield&hl=en&ll=53.381286,-1.472606&spn=0.000332,0.000871&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=11.039485,28.54248&oq=barkers+pool&t=h&hnear=Barker's+Pool,+Sheffield,+South+Yorkshire,+United+Kingdom&z=21&layer=c&cbll=53.381286,-1.472606&panoid=JmWZFhlakaxaX4BHPyR4Uw&cbp=12,254.95,,2,4.76

Would motorcyclist want the Council to install more of these, perhaps, if possible, in the existing on-street motorcycle parking areas?

 

 

No, it is not clear. The link above is to a council provided motorcycle rack on the pavement in a public place.

[johno 10]

way to many places for pushbikes and not enough for M/cycles

[arcticbear 10]

No it doesn't make any sense.

 

Why would it follow that someone using a hi-vis vest that they were given free of charge, mean that they hate anything with any type of engine?

 

Please explain your curious logic

 

Bahhh Humbug to you!

[alas_alas 10]

No, it is not clear. The link above is to a council provided motorcycle rack on the pavement in a public place.

 

How much clearer do you want the difference to be? The motorbike parking space you provide a link to has a squared-off parking area design, a P sign with a motorbike underneath it, and a rack to lock your motorbike to - significantly different to the standard 'Sheffield-stand' bicycle rack.

[sammyBoy 10]

How much clearer do you want the difference to be? The motorbike parking space you provide a link to has a squared-off parking area design, a P sign with a motorbike underneath it, and a rack to lock your motorbike to - significantly different to the standard 'Sheffield-stand' bicycle rack.

 

I didn't park on a 'Sheffield-stand' bicycle rack - these are of stainless steel construction and have a bar parallel to the ground. And, as stated in my post, it is only with hindsight that I know of that motorcycle provision.

[Planner1 442]

 

By parking my motorcycle behind the City Hall I am in contravention of a parking restriction but, I assume, exemption has been made by the provision of additional facilities - it was under this assumption that I parked in, what are only now being termed, bicycle racks previously.

 

The other day I saw a motorcycle parked in the first double rack behind the City Hall that is the same as the Peace Garden racks (ie not the big one, so assumedly a bicycle rack?) would that have been ticketed?

 

I have appealed to the ticket I was issued, pretty much on the above grounds, but have not heard anything back, or even had acknowledgement of my appeal - does anyone know how long it takes to get a response?

 

If you use the motorcycle rack, you will not be in contravention, so will not be ticketed.

 

If you use the cycle racks, you will be in contravention and may well be ticketed.

 

I hear that at the moment there is about an 8 week turnaround on challenges, so you may have a bit of a wait to hear back.