Should Muslim women stop wearing traditional dress in public?

[Suffragette1 10]

Ermmm, I don't want to call the Quaran stupid, but if the behaviour of men was the problem, why not make the rule instead of say "Women must wear a hijab" (paraphrased) say instead

 

"Men must not harass women".

 

Call me slow, but that's arse over tit, if the behaviour of some men is the problem, then address it directly, otherwise their behaviour is given tacit approval and it now becomes the fault of the immodestly dressed women, which is complete poppycock.

 

So no, I can't see any wisdom behind it, I can see misogyny and stupidity.

 

Sex crimes could be up because of sun bathing. Seriously, think about what you are saying.

 

Anyone who claims that women must behave in a certain way to protect them from men is controlling the behaviour of women (and not men) and thus oppressing them. That's true whatever twisted logic they use to justify it.

 

I agree Cyclone. T'was ever thus I'm afraid.

 

My sister-in-law just showed me some photos of the beach in Iran. Women having to wear the hijab and covered dress in the sea, men in swimming trunks. Where is the equality here?

 

My sister-in-law told me about a memo that went round her husband's place of work in Tehran. It instructed the female workers not to wear perfume as the western men would then have to go into the toilets to masturbate!!!!

[Gorgonzola 10]

I have been to Tunisia with my wife and we saw for ourselves that men there do enjoy harrassing(trying to chat up basically) or the very least, orgling at the tourists- who are dressed in western fashions.

I have been to Tunisia - not exactly the best advert for the upstanding morality of the people of Islam. A bunch of lecherous, dishonest creeps.

 

No matter where it may be, it is the natural make up of man to be like this- once he sees something desirable, he wants it.

Yes, the same applies to pet dogs - until you train them and they learn to associate bad behaviour with appropriate consequence.

 

Sadly though, in may Islamic countries the courts will ignore men's failings, including blaming a woman when she is brutally raped, so those Muslim societies do not learn from their own mistakes.

[Plain Talker 11]

Ermmm, I don't want to call the Quaran stupid, but if the behaviour of men was the problem, why not make the rule instead of say "Women must wear a hijab" (paraphrased) say instead

 

"Men must not harass women".

 

Call me slow, but that's arse over tit, if the behaviour of some men is the problem, then address it directly, otherwise their behaviour is given tacit approval and it now becomes the fault of the immodestly dressed women, which is complete poppycock.

 

So no, I can't see any wisdom behind it, I can see misogyny and stupidity.

 

Sex crimes could be up because of sun bathing. Seriously, think about what you are saying.

 

Anyone who claims that women must behave in a certain way to protect them from men is controlling the behaviour of women (and not men) and thus oppressing them. That's true whatever twisted logic they use to justify it.

 

Because most men will turn round and say "I wasn't 'Harassing!' I was just 'Having a Joke! "

(same as the woman who doesn't fancy that same man must 'obviously' be lesbian... )

[rubydazzler 11]

Cyclone's post above is one of the most concisely put and to the point that I've seen on this thread.

 

I'm quite amazed that Bazooka seems to be learning nothing on this thread as he keeps repeating the same tired mantra about men being unable to control their sexual urges as though they're some sort of badly trained house pet. Not only is it untrue, it's really very insulting to other men to try to make out that they're constantly going to be harassing women in the street unless they're dressed in a tent.

 

This hardly ever happens in Sheffield, does it, so when it does, let's take a closer look at the culprits in future and see who's actually doing this sort of thing? Will it be the men that Bazooka knows who've never been taught that women are not some sort of object of desire that they can do with as they please, or will it be the men that have been brought up as equals of women, in the home, in school and in the workplace?

 

After reading Bazooka's rantings on the subject, I'd even bet money on the outcome.

[Gorgonzola 10]

Will it be the men that Bazooka knows who've never been taught that women are not some sort of object of desire that they can do with as they please, or will it be the men that have been brought up as equals of women, in the home, in school and in the workplace?

 

After reading Bazooka's rantings on the subject, I'd even bet money on the outcome.

The former, of course.

 

I've read of rape victims in some islamic countries having to provide 4 male witnesses in order to press charges against their attacker - great.

 

I also know of a case in Saudi where a Philipino maid was raped by several Saudi nationals, and they were charged.

 

The judge in the case knew that Allah understood men and women, and that women used their wicked charms to tempt men, and the the poor men in this case were victims of her sultry wiles.

 

They were let off. She - once she'd recovered from her injuries from the rape - was stoned. Mind you, Saudi has entered the modern world - no more public stonings with buckets of hand-held half bricks, it's all done humanely - a Mullah chucks the first brick, and as that hits the victim a JCB drops a couple of tons of boulders on her.

 

That's Islam for you, in all its glory.

[ImyK2 10]

In Sheffield I noticed alot of glaring and dirty looks being dished out to women and men looking outwardly Muslim. Once this women in a niqab (face veil) was walking with 3 kids and this white women just barged past her with a look of disgust on her face nearly moving down the kids. Once about 6 women in the niqab got on a bus and the white ppl on the bus just had a look of pure disgust on there face. There was an air of tension on the bus the whole journey. There was about three occasions when people were mouthing off about Islam and Muslims loudly in public. In actual fact there was quite a few incidents but it wasn't like an every day thing.

 

In London it's quite normal to see women in traditional Islamic dress it's not really a big deal. That's not to say that harrasment never occurs. Racist cowards always go for an easy target and that includes non white racists just for the ignorant lot on here who interperate everything as whites and try to excuse hate crime by saying ethnic minorities do it too.

 

I think women should continue to dress how they feel comfortable or the intolerant bigoted element of society has won. In the past these same bigots hated traditional Asian dress and curry and the Asians didn't oblige them then. That was when Asians were relatively new in the country and skin head gangs were out in force. So I don't see why in this day and age when different races cultures religions have become a part of the UK, Muslim women should change how they want to dress for the benefit of those minority of racist cowards who want to commit hate crime but haven't got the bottle to take on there own equivelant from the Muslim community..

[rubydazzler 11]

Oh, Gorgonzola, please don't! I just can't bear it, really! I know that most people on here really just post to admire their own positions and words. But this world's often a cruel place and some people are harbouring real evil in their hearts. It grieves me to my soul, to even read something like that.

 

I've said it before that no-one can make anyone do anything that they don't really desire to do in their hearts. Some people really hate and despise women and enjoy torturing them and doing bad things, especially if they can be convinced that they have divine approval for it.

 

The JCB driver and the mullah for one, if that is a true story. Although I've seen what happens to cattle and sheep sometimes, it's just another bigger step to doing it to a person. Especially one that's bundled up in cloth, so that you can't see her face when you're killing her.

 

I'll just wait now and see what Wildcat's got to say about it, as he seems to know everything about Islam.

[Gorgonzola 10]

Oh, Gorgonzola, please don't! I just can't bear it, really! I know that most people on here really just post to admire their own positions and words. But this world's often a cruel place and some people are harbouring real evil in their hearts. It grieves me to my soul, to even read something like that.

Deeply unpleasant truths still need to be considered in order to gauge the depth of a problem – it’s not just about being a bit downtrodden.

 

The JCB driver and the mullah for one, if that is a true story.

A large number of my colleagues were ‘in town’ in that country when it happened, round about 1992 . . . . there were even representations from UK diplomats in protest, but to no avail.

 

It still happens routinely in several of the Arab countries, and in Iran.

 

I’ve seen awful pictures of a town judiciary in Iran having a truck drive over an 8-year old boy’s arm because he stole a bread roll, and there are plenty of horrific U-tube style pictures of recent stonings of women convicted of ‘immoral’ crimes, like sex before marriage (including being raped).

 

Parts of the world just aren’t nice, I’m afraid to say.

[rubydazzler 11]

In London it's quite normal to see women in traditional Islamic dress it's not really a big deal.

I also spend a lot of time in London, as part of my family lives there although it's many years since I actually lived there. As to being quite normal, it really depend on whereabouts in London you are. You'll see quite a few, but still not very many, niqab and robes wearers in the East End, out on the street anyway. But go to Hampstead or Wimbledon and you'll see none at all.

 

People often barge past me with a look of disgust on their faces, but that's probably because I'm old and fat, and possibly because I have red hair too. If a load of fat people got on a bus, a lot of thin people would be looking disgustedly at them. We often pick up vibes of what we want to, not what actually is. Possibly you're just assuming this, you could only say for definite that the woman who barged past was against the niqab wearer if she actually said so to her face at the time of the action, surely? Maybe she was just in hurry and this women was dawdling along getting in everyone's way?

 

There are occasions when people from other cultures 'mouth off' as you put it, sometimes they do it in English and other times they do it in another language, but we can all hazard a guess when we're being laughed at or slagged off and we can all have our feelings hurt by it, that's not the sole preserve of ethnic minorities.

 

I personally am against veiling, no matter how comfortable the other person may be with it, I think it dehumanises the woman inside. Not only that, it alienates me and makes me feel threatened and uneasy. It must be great to be wandering about able to see everyone else but they can't see you. We just expect to be able to see who we're dealing with, it's a basic right of social etiquette.

[Plain Talker 11]

The JCB driver and the mullah for one, if that is a true story.

 

I have had a search (by subject, and date, and both) on the net, and can't find any cite to the story being genuine.

 

I did find comments in an article on wiki, about how very rarely Stoning is actually used as a punishment, and from reading the article, it does seem that it's in the less enlightened countries (Saudi and Afghanistan, are two cited)

 

Usage today:-

 

Among the world's countries with Muslim majorities, very few (the unofficial shari`a court which runs in parallel with judicial court) exercise this form of punishment; when they do, they often face criticism.[citation needed]

 

Afghanistan:- As most areas of Afghanistan, aside from the capital, Kabul, are controlled locally by warlords or tribal leaders, the Afghan legal system depends highly on an individual community's local culture and the political and/or religious ideology of its leaders. Stoning also occurs in lawless areas, where vigilantes decide to commit the act for religious and/or political purposes.

 

Iran :- The Iranian judiciary has officially placed a moratorium on stoning, although the punishment remains on the books.

 

Nigeria :- Stoning is available as a punishment under Sharia in Nigeria. The most famous case is that of Amina Lawal, who was sentenced to death for having sex out-of-wedlock, as she is not married and found herself pregnant.

 

The death sentences through stoning of the years 2000 and 2001 in Northern Nigeria sparked international discussion on Shari`a’s imposition of stoning. Between 2000 and 2001 twelve northern Nigerian states officially declared Shari`a to be their criminal code again, even though many of its regulations conflict with the Nigerian constitution. The introduction of Shari`a law directly and indirectly led to many violent riots

 

Pakistan :- Islamic law in Pakistan still allows stoning as a form of punishment, however, no such executions have taken place in the country in recent times.

 

Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates :- Sentences to stoning or stonings without a sentence were also reported within the last years from Sudan, Saudi-Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

[Plain Talker 11]

Deeply unpleasant truths still need to be considered in order to gauge the depth of a problem – it’s not just about being a bit downtrodden.

 

A large number of my colleagues were ‘in town’ in that country when it happened, round about 1992 . . . . there were even representations from UK diplomats in protest, but to no avail.

 

It still happens routinely in several of the Arab countries, and in Iran.

 

I’ve seen awful pictures of a town judiciary in Iran having a truck drive over an 8-year old boy’s arm because he stole a bread roll, and there are plenty of horrific U-tube style pictures of recent stonings of women convicted of ‘immoral’ crimes, like sex before marriage (including being raped).

 

Parts of the world just aren’t nice, I’m afraid to say.

 

ahh, you are quoting unproven and uncited reports published on the "Islamofascism" site!

[depoix 11]

i must admit,im guilty of thinking about women in veils on the tram, when they whip the bus pass out i think to my self " how ridiculous,having an i.d photograph in a pass that in all truth,could represent just about anyone" why bother with a pass picture if wearing a veil?