Arguendo

Bang on:thumbsup: What I fail to understand is those who continually jump to the defence of this scum, spouting rubbish such as the need to listen to them, understand their views etc, we have listened & they either don’t make a coherent argument in defence of their actions or they clearly believe that society owes them; the rioting scum that went about their business of looting, burglary, damage & arson have no place in a civilised society, they fully understand it was pure greed & nothing more. While ever the PC, hug a hoodie brigade continue to give support in their rhetoric then the problem is only going to get worse, I wonder what the likes of Halibut would say if this scum broke into his house & for no reason other than amusement; set it on fire, or destroyed his livelihood, would he continue with his stupid comments about understanding them, human behaviour etc, the man as are many other rioters advocates; are very much deluded.

@Halibut; your perception regarding the rioters absolutely disgusts me, you as are many others who jump to their defence, or attempt to justify the actions of these scum, are part of the problem; in some way I see you as being partly, albeit indirectly to blame, people such as you, who fail to accept the reality of what these rioting scum are, indirectly give this scum support to take it up on themselves to ruin the lives of others, people who have worked hard all their lives. I only wish that some of those scum involved in the burning of properties, the murdering of upstanding citizens & ruining of people’s lives & livelihoods should have been aborted at birth, all the others should be relocated, possibly next door to supporters such as yourself. You may sit on this forum spouting your hug a hoodie crap, I would dearly love to see you spout your crap to those who have been affected by the actions of this SCUM, & yes that what they are SCUM, individuals who have no use in a civilised society.

There’s been a vast number on other threads, who in some way or another have attempted to justify or explain their actions, whether that is through implying that boredom, unemployment, lack of opportunity or misunderstood are reasons behind their actions. Some have even inferred that the bankers, & MP’s expenses played a part in fuelling their desire to ‘protest’, when in reality that’s BS, The only understanding people need to know, is that those that were looting, thieving, burning & mugging are merely an element of youth & young adults who have no respect for the values of society, they believe everything should be handed to them on a plate, they are and always will be scum, not worth the paper their benefit cheques are printed on.

Personally I don’t think wholesale evictions will work, I do believe certain families who are problematic, deserve eviction, usually extreme cases of whole family being unsociable. However the emotional ‘knee jerk’ side of me thinks, how about allowing those who continue to justify & excuse their actions, being able to adopt a looter (& their) families, they could be evicted & move in with their adoptee.

I know some of my comments have been a bit tough a late on the rioters, but are you seriously inferring we shouldn’t teach them how to use guns before we put them on the front lines of Helmond, that’s nasty, they’d be target practice for the Taliban. At least give them a chance to defend themselves.

Ask your GP to consider something on the lines of Amitriptyline, a medication taken at night, and one which many individuals have had great success with, taken at night it may help your husband to sleep, however as I’ve said your GP will know best as he has your husband’s history, medications are the key here, but you both need to sit down & discuss with your GP, keep a diary of events, such as when the pain is worse, what aggravates & what gives some form of relief, irrespective of how little relief it gives. The site I posted earlier in the post http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/spinal-stenosis will help in enabling you to understand the condition, there is a forum, which you have to join, but talking to others in the same predicament may help you to become more informed, give you idea’s on alternative relief techniques such as heat pads. Sites such as these are a great way to increase your understanding & improving your ability to cope, however no site is any good in helping you treat spinal or other health conditions, this has to be a personal one to one exercise with your GP & spinal surgeon.

I would seriously get back in touch with your GP, there are other pain medications which may benefit him better. Spinal stenosis is severely debilitating,& depending on the cause may require different approaches, whether or not the stenosis is caused by trauma or the effects of degenerative processes; however the most common & main focus of medication should be towards anti-inflammatory & nerve type pain, I've worked in spinal surgery for many years however I won't give advice specifically to individuals on a public forum, this can extremely unhelpful & dangerous, you need to see your GP who will attend to you in a more personal way. Not all medications will work, there are a variety of different medications which may benefit him better, an example maybe changing the type of anti-inflammatory, Until the inflammation is brought under control your pain will not be eased, at times it can be very much a hit & miss, trial & error process, you have deepest sympathy for what is a terribly horrible condition, but one which can be sorted.

Firstly Obelix you don’t deserve an apology, so you’ll be waiting a long-time for one; abusing someone by placing a ‘loopy character’ don’t make me laugh, I considered your post to be ill thought & irrelevant to the discussion, as I said your observation is not representative of the entire riots, it is your personal perception to the events which took place in ‘Hackney’, the riots took place all over London & elsewhere in the UK,I take it you didn’t go around counting the ethnic makeup, if I was in the area I would have been more concerned of getting away. I watched a news report last night which showed the police attending homes & making arrests, did I think ‘oh look they’ve arrested three black youths, Mmm that must mean the majority of the rioters were black’, the ethnic makeup has no relevance, they arrested three scum who had taken part. I have not said you are condoning any of the rioters, however by your comment “I could happily say most people in them were white, but they won't listen becuase the racists fools on here - and they know who they are, simply won't wear such comments because it doesnt suit their bigoted little agendas”; you appear to be attempting to incite or inflame the discussion into one of race, as I said it bears no relevance, it is SF members who such as yourself inhibit the ability to discuss issues around sensitive but important topics of this country in a rational & sensible manner.

Although I agree in some part Scoop, I don’t feel the physio would be the right route at present, until a diagnosis as to the cause is established; a physio could potentially make the condition worse, the physiotherapist will wait for the post surgeon consultation, the surgeon may then refer for physio input, as for pain clinics it’ll take the same process. There are two types of pain clinics, one is basically the acute pain team, primarily hospital based & deals with newly onset pain, or pain which is less than three months old, trauma, post surgical etc, they will only do what the GP can do & don’t take referrals from the community. Chronic pain teams is the other, they won’t see a patient until the pain experienced has been deemed as now being over three months old, after this period it is then considered Chronic. And unfortunately PALS no longer exist, but as you rightly point out by letting the GP & consultant know of how you are coping will help in speeding you consultation up, same as if the symptoms change become further complicated, then these are warning signs which need immediate attention, hence the reason not to be afraid to attend A&E.

Oh come HN, let’s not start beating someone because their asking for advice because they’re in pain, it’s a bit unsympathetic to say the least; I guarantee you this if you were in so much pain you wouldn’t hesitate at ‘jumping the queue’ if you had the chance. However this is not the case, by ringing the secretary, & letting them know you are available at very short notice to attend, actually saves the NHS money. You do get patients, who cancel because they no longer feel it necessary, or the appointment is inconvenient, clinic secretaries ring patients usually in advance to ensure they are able to attend, on many occasions the patients hasn’t had the foresight or decency to cancel, therefore the appointment goes unattended costing the NHS vasts ammount of money. So in effect, by placing your name with the secretary, you are saving the NHS money.

Good idea Pat, but if you need to be seen urgent, request the secretary to contact you if they get a cancelation, spinal surgeons are extremely busy, the vast majority of patients tend to be in the same situation as yourself. If your pain is uncontrollable then either see your GP, or in fact in extreme pain situations attend A+E, don't lay there in pain. Another point I would like to make, although peoples intentions may be well founded, listening to others results, such as tumours etc will only make you anxious and increase the pain. Each person is different; don't think of the worst case scenario, if you can get your pain to a level of tolerance then focus on something different until you see your consultant. Whatever you do; DO NOT TAKE ADVICE WHICH COULD ADVERSLY AFFECTS YOUR CONDITION. A good site once the cause of your spinal pain is identified, apart from your consultant is this site, http://www.spine-health.com/, very much American, the site is run by spinal surgeons & those who suffer in the same way as you. Just be careful on the advice you take. The website has a forum, run by extremely professional moderators.

You really are living in a either a different universe or cloud cookoo land; you cannot compare or excuse the behaviour shown by this scum over the last few days, it is purely greed & theft, it has nothing to do with the shooting of Duggan, whom I've also said deserved everything he got, I don't shed one bit of sympathy for the man. And what agenda are you on, EDL shouting racist’s slogans, fighting with the police, this did not clearly happen. Get of your desert sandaled hair beaded pc box & have a bit of sympathy for those true victims of society, the men, women, children who had to endure this scum’s riotous behaviour, & those who cannot go to work who will now struggle to put food on the table, until they go back to work, thats if they do. Exactly, concise but spot on.

:hihi: Classic

Totally agree, a sad day when you lose three good people, they were worth a hundred + of any scummy looter. My sympathies to the family.

Duggan's death has nothing to do with the riots, again many of those looting weren't looting out of protests it was purely greed. As for Duggan he deserved all he got, good riddance to a community cockroach.

As usual someone who tries to explain the behaviour by providing an excuse, there is no excuse for this behaviour, I don’t feel they need to be lectured, they need to be punished, they need to realise that this is no way to behave in a civilised society, they & their families need to be held to account, forced to pay for the damage & theft. I don’t for one min believe many of those involved have clue about politics or current events, the only current events they are familiar with is the going price of their next drug deal, I doubt many could give you a name of one politician who fiddled their expenses. They are no more or less, thieving scum, a society of youngsters who again want something for nothing; let’s not kid ourselves, the people responsible for their actions is their parents, not society, as parents they know the difference between right & wrong, this should be conveyed onto their offspring.

I too enjoyed that clip, you have to hand it to Manchester police job well done, however I suspect the PC brigade will be crying out loud, some poor police man will be suspended whilst some thieving little scumbag will claim compensation because his human rights were violated.

I didn't see many of those taking part looking destitute, dressed in their designer gear, expensive trainers, blackberries, iphones, some even had cars parked nearby in order to store their plunder. Many of those taking part appeared to want for nothing, I can understand if they were living in conditions such as they do in places like the Indian, South American & African slums, wondering when their next meal might come from. Here’s a novel idea; a by product of all this rioting is that insurance companies will no doubt increase premiums to recoup their losses. How about all those convicted (& if under 18 their parents), as having taken part in the riots, looting & causing damage are held accountable for the cost. Maybe the cost of the damage & theft should be accumulated & each person or family is made to pay a proportional amount back, money which can be given back to the small businesses & private individuals who have had their lives and livelihoods destroyed, if that means confiscating belongings & property so be it. Why should I & others be made to pay through my insurance because this scum doesn’t understand how to behave in a civil society?

But on the flip side they are young, they have the opportunity to amend their ways, I’m sure employers would look favourably on someone who was initially misguided, but then went on to achieve in some form, rather sitting back taking your punishment as some sort of trophy and continuing being a boil on societies backside.

Wrong, there are jobs in this country, if you have the ability to do those jobs, we are still employing overseas graduates in areas which with foresight our own children could do if educated. No child is born stupid, or lacks the ability to be educated, every child if nurtured correctly can achieve, all it requires is family support, but when a child sits back a takes a look at his/her peers, & sees them relying solely on benefits, drinking, a family unit that has no aspirations other than being a drain on society, then that child will conform to the same standards. If parents took responsibility ensured their children adhere to rules, encouraged them to achieve then we wouldn’t have this problem, making excuses that the Eton Elite or greedy bankers are to blame is wrong, yes we reap what we sow, I’ll say it again I know that my children will never be a drain on society, nor will many, many other children, because they come from responsible families. This is where the problem stems from poor parenting.

Just seen what I believe to be an excellent example of policing the rioters on SKY, it seems Manchester police have it sussed out, loads of youths on bikes riding away from the town centre with their plunder, ambushed by about ten riot police, one in particular got appears to get a beating with a couple of ASPs, others trapped against a wall by the riot squad. Doubt very much they’ll be looting anytime soon.

Sorry but what a load of BS, It’s not about hatred of the youth; I, as have quite of few of my friends, have teenage children, who don’t go around in gangs intimidating others, nor do they go on riotous looting spree’s because they are bored, or they perceive themselves having no future. My two teenagers as do many, many others work hard at school, get a great education, I have paid for one to go through university, he’s in his last year; on completion he’s on course to obtain good grades & the potential to gain a good job, salary and with good prospects for the future, my daughter starts university this year & I have no fears for her future, this goes for quite a few friends who’s own children are nurtured towards similar achievements, some are more focussed to academic achievement where as those who struggle with the academic studies are supported to achieve in other areas. If they have the ability then so does every child in this country, all it requires is a supportive family.

I refer to the court system & punishments they give out, it doesn't bode well in public opinion when someone go’s on a riotous looting spree, & is then discharged from court with one days imprisonment, that’s no punishment whatsoever. Just noticed your bold; my reference as in generation is the youths, teenagers, hoodies, gangs who participate in these activities; And I know there are many out there who are decent, but a large majority do expect or believe that society owes them something.

I agree a great picture; although standing there with their swords is bit too far, but again they get my support. But they weren't the only ones, 300 men patrolled Enfield, & though you may not like this, SKY news did report & show EDL members standing side by side with a variety of ethnic groups in protecting the streets, however because there was an EDL presence the police were more focussed on them than the potential rioters.

Personal agendas by certain individuals; discussions tend to be muted depending on the personal feelings/opinions, the usual response you get, not directly quoting but something on the lines of; SF is a family friendly forum & as such discussions have to adhere to specific rules, or the site is privately owned therefore you are only invited to chat according to the rules of the owner. The statements tend to follow the lines of the aforementioned, freedom of expression or speech is not a process certain members of SF like if it doesn't conform to their beliefs or opinions. In fact I believe this thread will be removed shortly, as questioning the running of the forum is a cardinal sin, in which SF members will be temporally banned by SF bullies.