Most Ironic protest in history

[unbeliever 10]

They should look up the words they shout and wave at people in the dictionary.

Also the word "irony".

[Bob Arctor 11]

I suppose the first thing that they should be taught is how to get their point of view across in the correct way, and rioting, and shouting people down,etc, is not the best way to do that.

 

But you don't have any special authority to decide what is the right way and nor does anyone else. They believe that they are acting in the right way and you will have to put up with it.

[unbeliever 10]

But you don't have any special authority to decide what is the right way and nor does anyone else. They believe that they are acting in the right way and you will have to put up with it.

 

There's a line. Which is the use of violence or the threat of violence. They crossed it.

[Bob Arctor 11]

There's a line. Which is the use of violence or the threat of violence. They crossed it.

 

The line is imaginary. It applies to you, it doesn't apply to them. We all have our own lines, there is no "line". So far the protests in Romania against the outrageous attempt by the centre-left government to exempt itself from prosecution for corruption have been peaceful. That's fine and I wish them every success. But if that's not enough then they will have little option but to up it a notch because the proposed law cannot be allowed to stand.

[Harrystottle 10]

One can't fight for progressive values by practising fascism. Ironically calling oneself "anti-fascist" whilst doing so doesn't help either.

 

They have become what they effect to despise.

[unbeliever 10]

The line is imaginary. It applies to you, it doesn't apply to them. We all have our own lines, there is no "line". So far the protests in Romania against the outrageous attempt by the centre-left government to exempt itself from prosecution for corruption have been peaceful. That's fine and I wish them every success. But if that's not enough then they will have little option but to up it a notch because the proposed law cannot be allowed to stand.

 

 

Could not disagree with you more. The Romanian people, if peaceful protest fails, can simply vote for somebody else at the next election.

Only when that option is withdrawn is the contract between the state and the people broken and all bets are off.

[Bob Arctor 11]

Could not disagree with you more. The Romanian people, if peaceful protest fails, can simply vote for somebody else at the next election.

Only when that option is withdrawn is the contract between the state and the people broken and all bets are off.

 

Are you aware that one of the effects of the proposed law would be to allow someone to take public office who has been barred for vote rigging? If they have form for vote rigging they can probably ensure they get in next time, in which case your solution to the problem becomes useless.

[unbeliever 10]

Are you aware that one of the effects of the proposed law would be to allow someone to take public office who has been barred for vote rigging? If they have form for vote rigging they can probably ensure they get in next time, in which case your solution to the problem becomes useless.

 

I don't think that's enough.

But coming back to the US matter, what's the comparable justification for crossing the line there?

[Bob Arctor 11]

I don't think that's enough.

But coming back to the US matter, what's the comparable justification for crossing the line there?

 

For the protesters I think they are very worried that Trump wants to turn the US into a kleptocracy. In a kleptocracy (like Russia for example) the people always get what they "want" because the government ensures that they only get the information that "helps" them to see things exactly as the kleptocrats see them. Playing by the rules and not crossing lines helps ensure this process continues smoothly.

 

I think it's a bit early to say exactly what Trump's intentions are, but the gagging of the National Parks Service is a worrying start. That has been sidestepped to a degree by National Parks employees setting up their own site - if Trump goes after them for that then I think the gloves are off. But I think the main test will be the next time a white cop murders a black man. Even during the Obama administration they got away with it but at least Obama made his displeasure clear. If Trump makes it clear that he doesn't care, and I think he will (he called the Holocaust merely "sad"), then I think it will all go up because you can't tell only one set of people to stay behind your line.

[unbeliever 10]

For the protesters I think they are very worried that Trump wants to turn the US into a kleptocracy. In a kleptocracy (like Russia for example) the people always get what they "want" because the government ensures that they only get the information that "helps" them to see things exactly as the kleptocrats see them. Playing by the rules and not crossing lines helps ensure this process continues smoothly.

 

I think it's a bit early to say exactly what Trump's intentions are, but the gagging of the National Parks Service is a worrying start. That has been sidestepped to a degree by National Parks employees setting up their own site - if Trump goes after them for that then I think the gloves are off. But I think the main test will be the next time a white cop murders a black man. Even during the Obama administration they got away with it but at least Obama made his displeasure clear. If Trump makes it clear that he doesn't care, and I think he will (he called the Holocaust merely "sad"), then I think it will all go up because you can't tell only one set of people to stay behind your line.

 

Israel considers him a friend, and there is nowhere near cause to argue that legitimate democratic processes are not in place.

[Bob Arctor 11]

Israel considers him a friend, and there is nowhere near cause to argue that legitimate democratic processes are not in place.

 

Israel considers him a friend because for all he cares they could perpetrate a genocide against the Palestinians and he wouldn't bat an eyelid. I agree that we don't yet know how bad it will get for democracy in the US, we'll have to wait and see. Don't get me wrong, I would never advocate violence for its own sake, people should generally only use it when peaceful methods are shut off, and there needs to be a clear cost/benefit ratio. I've used a degree of physical force when dealing with the National Front because history shows that the risks of allowing people like that to operate with impunity far outweigh the unpleasantness of keeping them impotent.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Bob Arctor

[unbeliever 10]

Israel considers him a friend because for all he cares they could perpetrate a genocide against the Palestinians and he wouldn't bat an eyelid. I agree that we don't yet know how bad it will get for democracy in the US, we'll have to wait and see. Don't get me wrong, I would never advocate violence for its own sake, people should generally only use it when peaceful methods are shut off, and there needs to be a clear cost/benefit ratio. I've used a degree of physical force when dealing with the National Front because history shows that the risks of allowing people like that to operate with impunity far outweigh the unpleasantness of keeping them impotent.

 

If Israel was inclined to exterminate the Palestinians they've had 50 years to do so.