Disabled Bus pass

[charmer 10]

I find the tone of you email quite offencesive, I choose to work and the pass helped my make that choice eaiser, the removal of this pass usage makes the option of work less attractive as I have now in real terms received an pay cut. My doctor and the state deems me disabled end of. People like you help to embed discrimination in society even deeper

 

I have made no personal attacks so I struggle to see the offence caused, however I offer my apologies as it was not my intention to offend you.

 

I also choose to work, as do the vast majority of people who work in this country. I would also suggest that if I was given a free bus pass it would make going to work more attractive.

 

The removal of this pass does not equate to a pay cut, any more so than an increase in the cost of any other service or product. Does you consider it a pay cut when your food shop increases it's prices?

 

The fact that the state considers you disabled is not the issue here, I have not contested that. I would query the source of your belief that "people like me" help embed discrimination in this society. What is it I have said that leads you to this conclusion? I am staunchly anti-discrimination, be it on the grounds of race, religion, disability, gender or sexual preference.

 

You didn't answer my question though, perhaps if you did so it would help me understand your point of view. I am open minded enough to admit that there is something that I may be missing.

 

Why is it you feel that someone who is disabled, yet fit enough to work, should receive a free bus pass? I presume that you get paid the same amount of money for doing your job as a non-disabled person. Why should the non-disabled person spend some of their identical wages on travel whilst you shouldn't?

[Grazzer 10]

I have made no personal attacks so I struggle to see the offence caused, however I offer my apologies as it was not my intention to offend you.

 

I also choose to work, as do the vast majority of people who work in this country. I would also suggest that if I was given a free bus pass it would make going to work more attractive.

 

The removal of this pass does not equate to a pay cut, any more so than an increase in the cost of any other service or product. Does you consider it a pay cut when your food shop increases it's prices?

 

The fact that the state considers you disabled is not the issue here, I have not contested that. I would query the source of your belief that "people like me" help embed discrimination in this society. What is it I have said that leads you to this conclusion? I am staunchly anti-discrimination, be it on the grounds of race, religion, disability, gender or sexual preference.

 

You didn't answer my question though, perhaps if you did so it would help me understand your point of view. I am open minded enough to admit that there is something that I may be missing.

 

Why is it you feel that someone who is disabled, yet fit enough to work, should receive a free bus pass? I presume that you get paid the same amount of money for doing your job as a non-disabled person. Why should the non-disabled person spend some of their identical wages on travel whilst you shouldn't?

 

The point is due to my being deemed by the state that I have a disability the stae deems it suitable for this pass to be issued, would you turn it down?

[charmer 10]

by your definition then no-one should claim any benefits or take up anything offered to them for free. which imo is pretty absurd. If you are interested the government decided to give disabled people free bus travel in the name of equality. which I guess is like other benefits, it puts those who are disadvantaged in some way on a more equal footing with those who are not...

 

That is a massive leap to make. I am questioning why someone who is fit to work and gets paid the same amount as someone who isn't disabled in the same job should get their travel for free. This is very different to suggesting that no one should get any benefits of any kind.

 

I can understand why people who are too disabled to work should get free travel, as it will help integrate them into wider society and potentially improve their quality of life at very little cost to the public purse. The difference here is that the subject if fit enough to earn a living. In my mind if you are fit enough to earn a living, you are fit enough to pay your way.

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2014 at 14:17 ----------

 

The point is due to my being deemed by the state that I have a disability the stae deems it suitable for this pass to be issued, would you turn it down?

 

Nope I certainly wouldn't. However if the state decided I was sexy enough to be given £1 million, I would absolutely say yes! This doesn't mean that I would think it is a good use of public money.

 

I am not, and have never, questioned you, more questioned the decision to give someone who is fit enough to earn a living free travel.

[Grazzer 10]

That is a massive leap to make. I am questioning why someone who is fit to work and gets paid the same amount as someone who isn't disabled in the same job should get their travel for free. This is very different to suggesting that no one should get any benefits of any kind.

 

I can understand why people who are too disabled to work should get free travel, as it will help integrate them into wider society and potentially improve their quality of life at very little cost to the public purse. The difference here is that the subject if fit enough to earn a living. In my mind if you are fit enough to earn a living, you are fit enough to pay your way.

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2014 at 14:17 ----------

 

 

Nope I certainly wouldn't. However if the state decided I was sexy enough to be given £1 million, I would absolutely say yes! This doesn't mean that I would think it is a good use of public money.

 

I am not, and have never, questioned you, more questioned the decision to give someone who is fit enough to earn a living free travel.

 

I was a Joiner previously after my accident which nearly killed me and 5 years recovering I was deemed fit to do light work which is what I do, the pure point is classed as disabled is a 24 hour a day situation and is not time bound so why should the pass

[verydull 10]

and they are saying they now cant afford to work. as i said disabled people live on a restricted income. there is no such thing as a value brand when it comes to the extra costs of being disabled and if the op is working they will have to pay for the majority of this themselves. you cant just chose to spend a little less on care or specialist equipmwnt etc. and usually that is a high cost as its specialist.

 

so no, why should we pay when we are not "like everyone else"

 

Yes, disabled people who work ARE different to their non disabled peers. They do have extra costs associated with being at work and being disabled that their non disabled co-workers. Some of this is paid by benefits which have strict criteria and not everyone is entitled to but a lot of these costs are discrete and not paid for by any thing else. As I said, not a choice.

 

Would you extend means testing bus passes to elderly people as well?

[charmer 10]

Yes, disabled people who work ARE different to their non disabled peers. They do have extra costs associated with being at work and being disabled that their non disabled co-workers. Some of this is paid by benefits which have strict criteria and not everyone is entitled to but a lot of these costs are discrete and not paid for by any thing else. As I said, not a choice.

 

Would you extend means testing bus passes to elderly people as well?

 

 

In theory yes, but in practice it would probably be more expensive to set up the means testing then it would save. My grandparents are extremely wealthy, quite possibly millionaires, or close to it. They do not deserve free travel in my opinion.

[mrseggy 10]

There are a number of reasons why a working disabled person should have a free bus pass Charmer.

 

They may have a learning disability, which may mean they get confused, get off at the wrong stop, wrong bus ect. Of course someone without that disability wont have this issue.

 

Sensory issues, someone smelly (and not unclean as such, but strong perfume ect) or noisey children, for some disabled people this can be just to much to cope with, to the point they would get off the bus and wait for the next one. Again of course a person without a sensory problem wouldn't have this issue.

 

A need to go to the loo more often, they may need to take their journey to work in two steps to allow a toilet stop. Which of course someone without this disability wouldn't need to do!!

 

Im sure i could list a few more reason, but i think these puts a point across.

 

The decision to issue a person/child with a travel pass isn't judge on a case by case basis, proof of DLA/PIP (neither of which are easy to claim! without lots of medical evidence.) is required.

 

Have to say they way you use the term free loader is horrid!! im sure the vast majority of disabled people would swap shoes with you in a heartbeat!.....hey you could get a FREE bus pass then!

[Guest busdriver1]

If tram travel was excluded the same journeys would simply be made by bus so it wouldn't actually save any money.

 

 

I understand that the amount paid to operators for the conveyance of ENCTS passes is based on single fares. That being the case, a lot of money could be saved that way as tram fares are mainly a lot higher than bus fares.

[xXMessedUpXx 10]

My biggest gripe (aside from being disabled and only being able to work part time, so it makes no sense to buy a mega rider as the times so can use my. Pass it's pointless) is the current stagecoach works.

 

Usually I can catch the 10:50 (ish) tram from meadowhall (if I finish late) and my pass will be avid for that journey as it started before 11pm, but because of the tram replacement works that tram gets to castle square after 11 and I now have to pay for ten continuation of the journey.

 

I accept having to pay before 9:30am, it's a pain on a part time wage (and I only get Lowe dla which these journeys take up the majority of) but having to pay extra because stagecoach decided to so these works doesn't seem as fair.

 

I wouldn't object to paying a token amount but it irks me that children still get their 70p fare yet diasabled people who work are getting penalised

[charmer 10]

There are a number of reasons why a working disabled person should have a free bus pass Charmer.

 

They may have a learning disability, which may mean they get confused, get off at the wrong stop, wrong bus ect. Of course someone without that disability wont have this issue.

 

Sensory issues, someone smelly (and not unclean as such, but strong perfume ect) or noisey children, for some disabled people this can be just to much to cope with, to the point they would get off the bus and wait for the next one. Again of course a person without a sensory problem wouldn't have this issue.

 

A need to go to the loo more often, they may need to take their journey to work in two steps to allow a toilet stop. Which of course someone without this disability wouldn't need to do!!

 

Im sure i could list a few more reason, but i think these puts a point across.

 

The decision to issue a person/child with a travel pass isn't judge on a case by case basis, proof of DLA/PIP (neither of which are easy to claim! without lots of medical evidence.) is required.

 

Have to say they way you use the term free loader is horrid!! im sure the vast majority of disabled people would swap shoes with you in a heartbeat!.....hey you could get a FREE bus pass then!

 

 

Re-read what I said, I haven't called anyone a freeloader

 

You have presented edge cases and considered them the norm.

 

If the person is so easily confused that they get on the wrong bus with any frequency, then I can't see them holding down a job. Following a routine (getting on the same bus at the same time) would be far easier for most people with a learning disability than entering (and functioning within) the variable nature of the workforce.

 

I am not aware of a learning disability that causes an increase the frequency of either urination or defecation. However, if there is one, we are talking about someone who functions within society well enough to hold down a job. On this basis would you give someone with IBS or a weak bladder a free bus pass? Neither IBS nor a weak bladder are considered a disability under the equalities act.

 

You sensory issues suggestion is weak. How often do you think this happens? Again, an edge case.

 

I am sorry but I think your point has been constructed weakly

[Peakwalking 10]

Re-read what I said, I haven't called anyone a freeloader

 

 

 

If the person is so easily confused that they get on the wrong bus with any frequency, then I can't see them holding down a job. Following a routine (getting on the same bus at the same time) would be far easier for most people with a learning disability than entering (and functioning within) the variable nature of the workforce.

 

 

 

I am sorry but I think your point has been constructed weakly

 

I'll provide an actual example. I've got Asperger's syndrome, and although classed as disabled, and qualifying for an ENCTS pass because it's not safe for me to drive, I can cope very well on public transport...my problem is that I can't now afford to travel to the places I need to go. However, I know of several young men who have autism, a much more severe disability, who after several months of trying were finally able to travel independently on the bus just needing to place their pass on the scanner. They will now have to speak to the driver when they ask for their fare; however this isn't easy for them, they have severe communication problems and will most likely just stand in front of the driver and not say a word. If then asked where they're going they're likely to explain to the driver that they're going to a certain community centre, inform him what route they have to take when they get off the bus, joyfully explain what their daily activities are and what they're having for their dinner...and then wait to be told by the driver to take their ticket and sit down...not behaviour that you really want to be dealing with on a bus as a driver, or a fellow passenger.

 

So, in effect these lads will have to be chauffeured around by their parents again; undoing many months of hard work of trying to instill a degree of independence in their sons. Removing this small amount of independence from these people is cruel...there is no other word for it.

 

Like I keep writing; it's not about the money for most people; it's about the problems that some disabled face when using public transport.

[charmer 10]

I'll provide an actual example. I've got Asperger's syndrome, and although classed as disabled, and qualifying for an ENCTS pass because it's not safe for me to drive, I can cope very well on public transport...my problem is that I can't now afford to travel to the places I need to go. However, I know of several young men who have autism, a much more severe disability, who after several months of trying were finally able to travel independently on the bus just needing to place their pass on the scanner. They will now have to speak to the driver when they ask for their fare; however this isn't easy for them, they have severe communication problems and will most likely just stand in front of the driver and not say a word. If then asked where they're going they're likely to explain to the driver that they're going to a certain community centre, inform him what route they have to take when they get off the bus, joyfully explain what their daily activities are and what they're having for their dinner...and then wait to be told by the driver to take their ticket and sit down...not behaviour that you really want to be dealing with on a bus as a driver, or a fellow passenger.

 

So, in effect these lads will have to be chauffeured around by their parents again; undoing many months of hard work of trying to instill a degree of independence in their sons. Removing this small amount of independence from these people is cruel...there is no other word for it.

 

Like I keep writing; it's not about the money for most people; it's about the problems that some disabled face when using public transport.

 

 

This is a well made point, thank you for elucidating

 

I am well familiar with autism, my school decided at one point that I was possibly a suffered of it, or the closely associated ADHD, as I was extremely poorly behaved.

 

I would imagine that those who a far enough along the spectrum to have difficulty engaging with bus drivers are by and large unable to work. My point is about those who are well enough to work having to pay for their travel.

 

However, one way around this need to communicate would be a season ticket. This way, they would still be able to get on the bus and swipe, the only change would be that the card would be paid for rather than obtained for free. I believe that season tickets can be purchased online, removing the need for any interaction at all.