20 years today(11.2.10) since mandela was released

[boyfriday 21]

difficult to forget about that in South Africa today. Most of all that is, of course, just has it has always been, black-on-black.

 

yes, Mandela was a terrorist albeit one in charge of an organisation that though it did plant bombs in public places, at least attempted to minimise casualties. He was just possibly the most incompetent terrorist it is possible to imagine. He and no-one else was ultimately responsible for the Lillesleaf farm bust, which was a total disaster for the ANC. The SA police just waltzed in and found the entire Umkhonto leadership having a guerilla war seminar with hundreds of incriminating documents scattered around that were enough to send them all to the gallows.

 

Tell me callippo, if a regime seized power in your own country and denied you represention, property owenership, equal access to healthcare and education for you and your family, how long would you live under that regime before becoming involved in direct action?

[Urien 10]

Tell me callippo, if a regime seized power in your own country and denied you represention, property owenership, equal access to healthcare and education for you and your family, how long would you live under that regime before becoming involved in direct action?

 

It's like all the immigrants coming here and helping themselves to everything the Brits have worked for, fought for and built up, having contributed nothing.

[Urien 10]

Watching some African women on a BBC interview last night you would have heard them say that things had actually got worse after 20 years of black rule - a view you could hear echoed across Zimbabwe.

 

It's sad that people actually believe they're going to be governed any better by a bunch of power-crazed, self-serving commies, just because they happen to be the same colour - still, that's racism for you.

[Urien 10]

Yes, damn those vikings!

 

Very witty - I'm sure, but what your point?

[Randy 10]

It's just a matter of definitions, isn't it? If they're on the other side they're terrorists, if they're on your side, they're freedom fighters.

 

I wonder if in 20 years time Bin Laden will be given the same sort of misplaced adulation that Mandela gets now?

[boyfriday 21]

It's like all the immigrants coming here and helping themselves to everything the Brits have worked for, fought for and built up, having contributed nothing.

 

No its nothing like that, since immigrants have little or no political power and are relatively poor compared to the indigenous population, so the 'whiphand' is still firmly with British people.

 

Incidentally, you might not be aware Urien that the net financial effect of immigration is positive, albeit not significantly so.

[Randy 10]

Misplaced?

 

You really can't call it that when it was pretty much mandela alone that made the "peace and reconciliation" commission work - in most other countries it would have been revenge time.

 

I'm sure the people whose loved ones were maimed or killed when the ANC was bombing its way to the conference table would agree with you.

[boyfriday 21]

Watching some African women on a BBC interview last night you would have heard them say that things had actually got worse after 20 years of black rule - a view you could hear echoed across Zimbabwe.

So that justifies the loss of self determination?

It's sad that people actually believe they're going to be governed any better by a bunch of power-crazed, self-serving commies, just because they happen to be the same colour - still, that's racism for you.

 

Matters not a jot, this bunch of 'power-crazed, self serving commies' were denied access to a democratic platform.

 

I wonder if you would relinquish those rights if a Muslim found a cure for cancer, but in return wanted the Islamic Party of Great Britain taking power and British people governed by Sharia? He would be told to sod off in no uncertain terms, and rightly so.

[boyfriday 21]

I'm sure the people whose loved ones were maimed or killed when the ANC was bombing its way to the conference table would agree with you.

 

I think the military refer to it euphemistically as 'collateral damage'.

[Randy 10]

Oh come now, the ANC killed very few people compared to the apartheid government

 

That's like saying it's okay for me to go out and kill someone so long as I kill less people than Fred West!

 

Taking the lives of innocent people is still murder, regardless of the motive, and murderers should not be celebrated.

[boyfriday 21]

That's like saying it's okay for me to go out and kill someone so long as I kill less people than Fred West!

 

Taking the lives of innocent people is still murder, regardless of the motive, and murderers should not be celebrated.

 

So you would denounce war under all circumstances?

[Randy 10]

So you would denounce war under all circumstances?

 

In an ideal world yes, but I accept that sometimes there is a need to defend yourself, for example if it's a "kill or be killed" situation.

 

But a terrorist bombing campaign puts innocent lives at risk and is therefore morally unjustifiable. In my opinion Mandela's methods were no more justifiable than the IRA's were.