5 Years anniversary of war...

[BillyWhiz 10]

...And now we say we're going to pull out and leave it to them to clear up the mess...

 

Who's 'we' and when did 'we' say 'we' were going to pull out and leave them to their own devices. Iran would simply love that idea, I can see Im-in-a-dinner-jacket jumping for joy at the news.. It'll never happen while the USA and Israel exist!

[BillyWhiz 10]

...The American's are very lax in the way they fight and don't seem to take it the same way the British do. I think that's because the majority of troops in Iraq are local Citizen Soldier type a bit like our TA (but without the brains and proper training).

 

Sorry Eric, I couldn't resist:hihi:

[BillyWhiz 10]

Today marks the fifth anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.

 

My question is this. Is Iraq in a better state now than it was 5 years and 1 day ago?

 

IMO NO! No meaningful security, a corrupt whimpish government, No clean water, major food shortages, electricity for 1 hour per day if you're lucky, no fuel in an oil rich country:huh: and a tribal system that belongs in the middle ages backed up by militias willing to swap sides for a handful of dollars - Ho and the atrocities carried out by all sides which have led to @ 100,000 lost souls from all nations.

 

But then, Tomorrow is another day!

[Eric_Collins 11]

Sorry Eric, I couldn't resist:hihi:

I was gonna put that but thought it be too harsh

[callippo 10]

electricity for 1 hour per day if you're lucky

 

sombody's mixing up Iraq with Zimbabwe.

 

apart from Baghdad, electricity service is far better now than it was in 2003, when the average hours electricity was between 3 and 6 hours. Now it's double that. Internet users have increased by something like five times.

[Lotusflower 10]

IMO NO! No meaningful security, a corrupt whimpish government, No clean water, major food shortages, electricity for 1 hour per day if you're lucky, no fuel in an oil rich country:huh: and a tribal system that belongs in the middle ages backed up by militias willing to swap sides for a handful of dollars - Ho and the atrocities carried out by all sides which have led to @ 100,000 lost souls from all nations.

 

But then, Tomorrow is another day!

 

Add to that 3 million displaced people, beheading and hanging of women on a daily basis, hospitals without drugs and equipment, killings on average 120 a day, (WHO census figures).

That 120 figure is DOUBLE the number killed in the last two years of Saddam's rule.

 

I could add to the list but there's enough in there to swallow.

OK, so they caught and hung a tyrant. In his place they have (IMO) put a thousand tyrants. Well done!

 

I have taken great interest in Iraq's "progress" since this war re-started and the only possible conclusion it is possible for me to reach is that Iraq is patently worse off now than before.

[BillyWhiz 10]

electricity for 1 hour per day if you're lucky

 

sombody's mixing up Iraq with Zimbabwe.

 

apart from Baghdad, electricity service is far better now than it was in 2003, when the average hours electricity was between 3 and 6 hours. Now it's double that. Internet users have increased by something like five times.

 

I've no doubt that in some parts of Iraq things are better but Baghdad IS Iraq to all intents and purposes - it is the capital after all. Internet users have increased by 5 times - What?

 

Let's not quiblle about an hour or two of electricity here and there the fact remains that Iraq (in general) has been brutalised back to the stone age for a lot of people - there's enough evidence on TV news this week to show that.

[Baz1 29]

Leaving aside the countless dead and the chaotic scenes in Iraq, the sectarian war etc..On the eve of the U.S.-led invasion to oust Saddam Hussein, President Bush offered this rationale: “We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people.”... five years later, the U.S. military continues its fight to “restore control,” and so far a divided Iraqi government has been unable to reconcile important economic and political issues.

Iraq is a MESS and Bush knows it. At least Saddam had the people under control and there was no threat from him really. He had no power to match USA so was never a threat to it.

[callippo 10]

polls seem to show that Iraqis themselves think that they're better off now, and that most are optimistic about the future. Maybe this is an Iraqi trait though because even in late 2005-early 2006, Iraqis were saying that they were optimistic about the future, apparently to a greater extent than just about anywhere in the world.

 

but of course the society is obviously polarised in a way it wasn't before, so to talk about an 'average Iraqi' is meaningless.

[Lotusflower 10]

polls seem to show that Iraqis themselves think that they're better off now, and that most are optimistic about the future. Maybe this is an Iraqi trait though because even in late 2005-early 2006, Iraqis were saying that they were optimistic about the future, apparently to a greater extent than just about anywhere in the world.

 

but of course the society is obviously polarised in a way it wasn't before, so to talk about an 'average Iraqi' is meaningless.

 

I'd be interested to know which polls you refer to and who the polls were conducted by. Given that it's anniversary waltz time and the media is full of coverage it's impossible to overlook the resentment expressed by huge numbers of ordinary Iraqis across all sections of the community.

That resentment is largely levelled against the US, whereas in Basra it's against the UK.

Basra, incidentally is a no go area for British troops. They gave it up and now confine themselves to protecting the airport. Glad they made that safe then before they left, especially for the female of the species.

[Pritt Stick 10]

i tentatively suggest that Iraq has a better chance of a future now than it did 5 years ago. Lots of deaths in the last 5 years - and there'll be lots more. Compared to how many Saddam might have killed during the same period.

 

Maybe we should compare the death toll in the last 5 years against the worst 5 years of Saddam's rule.

 

In that time there would have been plenty of misery with no light at the end of the tunnel - now we have plenty of misery but with a glimmer of light perhaps....

 

No omelettes without broken eggs (couldn't think of a more sensitive analogy).

[Pritt Stick 10]

I personally think that we're just being used as puppets to fulfil Israel's wishes (as is normally the case).

 

It's clearly not a better place. Using the excuse of Saddam's evilness for causing more death is a pretty hypocritical action.

 

Israel's puppets!! Is Olmert's hand really up my backside without me knowing it? He didn't even buy me dinner first!!