mgs58

Hi Trev, sorry about the delay in getting back to you but its been one of those months. Enough said. I'm pleased to hear you're trying to be positive. Keeping busy is definitely the right 'tonic' (hope that didn't sound 'glib'?). What else can we do but keep 'going on'. I'm sure thats what Pam would have wanted. She seems like she was a really cool lady. 40 years1 I'll bet you have some fantastic memories Trev? I was lucky, after being widowed and divorced I met my current partner Adele and I couldn't be happier. Cest la vie! I used to live in Holborn when I was working at the Cockpit Theatre so I know / or rather knew Islington quite well; although I never knew of any children's homes in the area; then again why would I? I was down there a few months ago and couldn't believe how much it had changed. I remembered it as quite an 'exclusive' area back then but these days it seems far more vibrant and 'cosmopolitan' . Anyway, before this turns in to a 19c novel I'd better sign off. Before I go I don't drink alcohol anymore, but I'd be more than happy to meet for a 'coffee' sometime. However, it doesn't bother me if others have a drink so if thats your tipple I'd be happy to meet in a pub of your choosing; whenever you're so inclined. It's been a pleasure chatting with you Trev. I wish you the very best. Martin

Hi Trev, Martin here. Sorry not logged in for quite a while but I hope you see this. So sad to hear of your wife's passing. I lost my second wife a few years ago, my mother not long before and one or two friends and family since so I know how traumatic losing a loved one is. I hope you're coping Trev? It's really good to hear from you. I was thinking the other day how much of an 'impact', if that's the appropriate word, Thornseats had on me, especially considering I was only there a couple of, mostly happy, years. Maybe my time there stands out because they were in such contrast to the following couple of years i.e. until my care ordered expired and I joined the Navy. My sister Jeanette is a residential social worker at 'Mallan' (i think that's the correct spelling) or was until relatively recently (shes now working in another area of Social Services). She told me how she's always coming across people who have/had a connection to Thornseats; either ex staff, residents or relatives of kids that lived there before its sad demise. Lets try and keep this thread going, who knows where it might lead. My thoughts are with you and all who share in these memories. Best Wishes. Martin

Good to hear from you Trevor. I wondered where you'd gone. Please say hi to Ruth when you next see her and ask if she remembers Betty Dawson, a local volunteer who often helped in the kitchen and like Ruth cooked some cracking meals?

Sounds like you've made the most of your life mate. A career you really enjoyed and a happy family life, what more can you ask for? I also have kids (a son, a stepson ) and a few grandkids. Unfortunately, I don't see much of them these days. Something I'm hoping to address in the coming year. Yeh, like you I often wonder how things turned out for some of the kids I was in care with / went to school with. Thanks to forums like this we now know the fate of at least two of our number.

I think you're right it was Glen Goddard. As for an undistinguished career mine wasn't exactly marked with achievements mate; except boxing . Like you I was small and skinny when I joined. I stayed more or less skinny but I shot up to just under 6ft (5' 11"); unfortunately a perfect weight and reach for a flyweight boxer so the PTI more or less press ganged me in to the boxing team. Although I went on to win the Navy and Inter-Service championships in 1975 and got all the way to the ABA semis; where I was whupped by a kid half my size but fast as lightning. I didn't handle failure that well back then and gave it up soon after to concentrate on other goals. After leaving the RN I did all sorts. I moved to London and ended up being an ASM then an actor in a touring theatre Company. I did a few bit parts on TV series like 'The Gentle Touch', 'Take Three Women', 'The Sweeney' etc and one off plays like 'Another Flip For Dominic Hyde' (Sci -Fi) and 'Out On The Floor'; a play about Northern Soul /Wigan Casino. Sounds more glamorous than it really was i.e. mostly one liners, some 'extra' work etc. I did a bit of freelance writing, theatre/film criticism amongst other stuff, before landing a job in computing @ British Telecom HQ in Leeds then Sheffield. I got married, settled down (sort of), family etc. I was medically retired in 1985 following a serious head injury / brain haemorrhage and was a bit up and down for a few years. However I enrolled at Sheffield Hallam in 1999 studied P/T for ten years and left with a double first (BA Eng. MA Writing). Swings and Roundabouts eh Mick? ---------- Post added 23-11-2016 at 22:44 ---------- Great pics Brian, much appreciated. They brought back a few happy memories of my own, although I was a lot older than you during my relatively brief but memorable time there.

I remember you Mick and maybe Stephen Fowler (assuming Fower was a typo?). I think Kevin Joel arrived the year I left but can't be sure. How long did you serve in the Army mate? I did my basic at HMS Raleigh, Gunnery at HMS Cambridge and specialist training at HMS Phoenix amongst other bases. After training I served aboard HMS Achilles a Leander Class Frigate before applying for the fleet air arm. You might be able to help me with another face. There was another lad in the same class who's father owned a saw mill and they lived in a farm-house out in the sticks. I think his name was Glen but not sure. I went to his place for dinner once and he showed me around the mill; which was guarded by this vicious doberman. Ring any Bells?

Hi Brian. Thornseats just resonates with memories doesn't it? Most of them fond, if the recollections of contributors to this thread are anything to go by? In fact the worst memory I have of the place (other than the day they told me my nan had died) was the day I left. The place I was shipped off to was the exact opposite of Thornseats and I have very few good memories of my time there. Anyway. I enjoyed your photos. Thats how I shall always remember the Lodge. It was an amazing building. The photo of the front porch / entrance reminded me of the countless trips we had whilst I was there. We all used to congregate in the porch before climbing aboard the big blue comma van and off down the long driveway, lined with Rhododendron bushes, to Cumber park or Butlins- Filey or Mablethorpe for the day, a weekend or sometimes longer. It must have been geared much more towards infants in your day whereas when I was there the children ranged from 4yr olds (I remember the twins little 'Marky' and his sister who, unfortunately, were split up and adopted by different families) to teenagers. I'd just turned 14 when I left. ---------- Post added 21-11-2016 at 21:14 ---------- Hi lazy Baby5. Those are the lads. I didn't see much of them after I left Bradfield but I occasionally visited my foster mum 'Betty Dawson' at weekends and me and her son sometimes played five a side with one or two of my old class mates down in the yard of the Loxley brickworks or roundabouts. Yeh, Steve as the nickname suggests had ginger hair & Gaz had a feather cut. I used to envy him and my other mates because he came to school in all these really cool clothes: Stay-press, Ben- Shermans, Dockers, Harrington Jkts etc which Thornseats (the fascists) would never buy me; no matter how much I tried to persuade them my life / street-cred (same thing when your 14 ) depended on it. Mind you how we used to wear our ties, wide & short with ludicrously thick knots left a lot to be desired; dontya think? I'm trying to figure out who you might be? Would I remember you? Did we hang out with the same crowd? I mean at school? I didn't see that much of them outside of it.

Lazybaby5. I went to Bradfield School in the early seventies. Didn't it used to be called Worral or something like that? Coincidently, I was in the same class as a lad called Hague. I can't remember his christian name but I remember his father owned a coach company and was building a house in Loxley. I have a feeling he's related to the present owners of Thornseats but can't be sure. I wonder if it's me you are referring to? I left Bradfield in 1972 and joined the navy in 1974? I can't remember what class I was in but I can see their faces. I recall a lad called Gary /Gaz, another nicknamed Carrot, or something like that, and this girl who I had a real thing for but never acted on as she was already courting . I bunked off one day and was walking around Loxley, Hillsborough or somewhere thereabouts when she trotted by on her horse. I'd never been riding so she told me to 'climb aboard' and off we went. I can see her face as clear as day but I can't recall her name either. Fond memories though.

TREV are you the ex cop who sported a beard and used to play the guitar or am I thinking of someone else? I think I remember Ruth. Does she remember Betty who was also a cook? I loved the meals at Thornseats; cooked on that amazing Arger range. I occasionally run in to the odd person that was at Thornseats when I was there . One or two had the misfortune to end up in Castle Howard or other dumping grounds like it, as I did. Unfortunately, as is the case with a lot of kids who've been in care their experiences after care are invariably unhappy ones. My sister became a residential carer/social worker and I gather the situation hasn't improved that much. But nice to know you remember Steve and may even remember me. My name is Martin Scott by the way. ---------- Post added 20-11-2016 at 16:45 ---------- TREV I hope I didn't give the impression I was having a go at residential social workers / carers like yourself and my sister? Nothing could be further from the truth. With the odd exception, most of the people who worked on the front line [i, [/i]so to speak, during my time in care were decent, hard working, well meaning people. It's the policy makers, the upper echelons of the Social Services I take issue with; if anyone. Having reviewed my last contribution I realise I came across as been quite bitter & cynical. I didn't intend to. I have my fair share of tragic stories to tell but I've plenty of happier, positive ones too. Not all of the people I was in care with have ended up in prison, living rough or wasting their lives on the end of a needle. A few years ago I bumped in to a bloke who turned out to have been in the same boarding school in Devon and at the same time as I was. We went back to his flat and he showed me all these mementoes, photos etc of his stay there. I was only there a couple of years but he stayed for ten and ended up as head boy. As I was sifting through his treasure trove I found a group photo featuring the both of us and an annual booklet the boarders produced; featuring my very first literary endeavours (circa 1968). We reminisced about our shared experiences and ended up being the best of mates. He went to Leeds Musical College and is now a session musician and a few years ago I graduated from Sheffield Hallam with a double first (BA English / MA Writing). I mention this only to put things in perspective. We were planning to visit the place (now a retreat for severely disabled kids) which is located on the edge of Dartmoor earlier this year but illness prevented me/ us. Hopefully we'll get there next year. It was/is a really beautiful place and though I was really homesick a lot of the time, I do have some very positive memories of my time there; just as I have of my time at Thornseats.

I know this is an old thread but I had to comment as I was a resident of Thornseat Lodge when it was a children's home back in the early seventies. Although I was a bit of a mixed up kid I did have some happy memories of the place and some of the staff so it was sad to learn it was in such a sorry state. The place was run by Aunty Jean (Ellis?)when I was there. Other staff I remember were Gordon, Trevor, Anne, (Margaret?) and a wonderful lady called Betty Dawson ('Aunt Betty', a local volunteer) who kind of unofficially adopted me until her death a few years later. I also remember Mr Merryweather the handyman. My best mate during that period was a kid called Steve Butler. We were inseparable and always up to mischief; nothing heavy just high spirits. I was sent from there to Castle Howard Community Home and Joined the Royal Navy as soon as my care order had finished so I never saw him again. But the story didn't end there. My Mum died some years ago and was buried at City Road Cemetery. A short while later a fresh grave appeared next to hers & few weeks later a grave stone was erected. The name on it was Stephen Butler. The deceased's age tallied with that of my old pal & at the time of his death he would have been in his mid forties. Later I was visiting my mum's grave when the deceased's mother and two children turned up. I had to know if the person buried next to my mum and my former pal were one and the same so I asked the lady if Stephen had ever been a resident at Thornseat Lodge children's home. She confirmed that he had been and that the person buried next to my mother was indeed my old mate Steve. How sad and how strange life can be ? RIP Steve. RIP Thornseat. p.s. I don't believe in ghosts parse but that place must resonate with memories and should have been preserved.

I'm not saying your definition is incorrect merely pointing out that its just one of several in circulation, including the definition I used. There are at least two types of debunker. One uses the dialectical approach to debunk the more sensational claims about UFOs by pointing out the flaws, contradictions and absence of logic in the 'believers' arguments whereas the other type dismiss, admittedly often arcane theories based on nothing more than their own prejudices, hidden agendas etc etc. Healthy skepticism is to be applauded and encouraged but ignorance and prejudice we can do without. Thats all I'm saying

If you are incapable of expressing your views in a civil tongue then don't bother contributing to the debate my friend. Just because you pertain to be a genius that knows everything and can work out what a UFO is when there are trained observers that often have great difficulty identifying these phenomena and feel you have a god given right to dismiss those amongst us who aren't so certain as either thick, fantasists or Mr Magoo is no reason to be rude or abusive. ---------- Post added 16-10-2016 at 16:35 ---------- My friend that definition does no begin to explain the motives of Project Bluebook' for example. Its more or less a given that the US Military / Govt were debunking not to expose the "hollowness or falseness of UFOs" based on the evidence available but to uphold some hidden agenda; possibly to dispel public concern or fears or more likely, in my humble opinion, because they are incapable of sharing info or telling the truth. Professor Hynek was Bluebook's more fervent 'debunker' and whilst he accepted that 90% of sightings could be explained away as mistaken identity, naturally occurring phenomena, atmospheric anomalies etc, etc there remained that 10% that could not be so easily categorised. He came to the conclusion that there was potentially more to this phenomena than the official findings / hypotheses would have us believe. Postscript: I fully endorse your statement about UFOs being exactly that: 'UNIDENTIFIED' Flying / Ariel Objects; and you can't debunk what you cannot identify.

It's precisely because we don't know what IT is that is stimulating the debate.Afteral, curiosity is man's most defining trait.I think you're confusing debunking with the process of 'elimination', the testing of hypotheses. The definition of debunking as I understand it is: the prejudicial distortion / denial / ridiculing of phenomena to uphold the Status Qou. As for not knowing anything about it, on the contrary I thought megalith provided a wealth of detail about its movement and the geographical location & time of the event etc. Certainly enough to stimulate debate.

Actually that might be a more feasible explanation Anna. I t wouldn't be the first time top secret projects have been mistaken for Alien craft for example. Look at the myriad of sightings in the 60s and 70s that are now attributed to the testing of top secret airframes like the Blackbird and Stealth.

Megalthic, I found your objective, leveled headed approach to this phenomenon refreshing. I share your 'predicament 'Its hard for a rational, intelligent human beings to process experiences like this. One wants to keep an open mind, remain skeptical but be open to more arcane explanations without being labeled ‘eccentric’ or an out and out Nutter. Unfortunately there are far too many people who equate skepticism with debunking and who dismiss such experiences out of hand. Conversely, there are just as many ‘believers’ who are far too quick to attribute ‘extraterrestrial explanations’ to such phenomena. What you saw might have a very simple, even banal explanation but its just as possible you observed a phenomena that can’t be so easily explained away by conventional frames of reference or Occam’s Razor. As Hamlet reminds us: ‘There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy’. It’s possible, however far- fetched it may sound, that what you observed isn’t ‘of this world’; or if it is it has yet to be discovered or revealed. Personally, the theory that earth is regularly visited by aliens doesn’t hold any water, simply because of the logistics involved; not least of which is the huge distances they’d have to travel. Look at the problems we had to overcome just to land men on the moon; a mere step away by cosmic standards. But when it comes to visiting or exploring other worlds there are other options. ‘Probes’ for example. We’ve been exploring the heavens for a mere 60 years and in that time we’ve not only landed men on another planet we’ve sent probes to the far corners of the universe. Surely its within the bounds of possibility that other intelligent species, perhaps far older and potentially more technologically advanced than us might have sent the occasional probe to explore our world? Just consider this: if there’s no organic life form to factor in to the equation, then distance and all the other obstacles unconducive to interstellar travel are ‘academic’. I’m not stating that alien probes are a fact, nor am I suggesting that’s what you saw megalithic, I’m just saying it’s feasible and you shouldn’t rule it out for fear of ridicule. There are scores of civilian and quite a few military pilots, trained observers not given to flights of fancy, who have reported encounters with UFO’s that appeared to be under some kind of intelligent control, interacting with their aircraft albeit robotically. There are accounts of UFOS mirroring / imitating the movements of the airplane, adjusting speed and altitude to keep at a ‘safe distance’ but every once in a while darting towards and around the slower craft ‘like inquisitive insects’. Military pilots scrambled to intercept UFOs have stated that the ‘intruders’ respond to perceived threats by either accelerating at ‘impossible speeds’ or performing other maneuvers impossible to match. There are even accounts of them interfering with the interceptor’s controls, forcing the pilot to back off before control is returned to him. These UFOs move and react almost mechanically, as if preprogrammed to do so and perform the kind of actions a sophisticated probe, perhaps designed to evade capture, might perform. I have been watching the skies myself for a number of years and have experienced several instances of strange lights & objects, not unlike the object you witnessed. These objects perform maneuvers that no conventional craft would be capable of and appear to be able to defy the laws of physics. I too wracked my brains trying to arrive at a rational explanation; ruling out lanterns, conventional aircraft, planets, searchlights, shooting stars and satellites etc in the process. I’m still no wiser. More recently I was in my back garden in Sheffield in the early hours when a pair of parallel lights, moving in sync, passed overhead. They were not unlike stars in appearance & appeared to be separated by a weird ‘atmospheric’ distortion that I can only describe as being similar to the ‘haze’ you often see on really hot, sunny days. Unlike your ‘encounter’ mine only lasted 5/6 seconds before the lights and accompanying haze disappeared. I’m not a UFO nut and I’m not affiliated to any group but I am very interested in exchanging thoughts, ideas, and theories on this subject with like-minded people i.e. healthy skeptics with open minds. Surely there must be other people out there who have had similar experiences and are interested in discussing their experiences rationally and objectively, without bias, hidden agendas or preconceived notions? Lets hope this forum and this discussion in particular can persuade such people to contribute to the debate.