back2basics

Where did i say i was talking exclusivly about type I? All you know is the strawman. Type I only accounts for little more than 5% of all cases.

Type I is an autoimmune responce that attacks the insulin producing cells in the pancreas. While this process is occuring the pacreas makes less and less insulin. By the time you are diagnosed, it really depends where you are in that process. Some people can be diagnosed while still preducing levels of insulin. But yeah, at some stage inevitably there will be none.

Depends on how much insulin they are producing naturally. But indeed eventually every type I will be on some level of insulin.

This strawman again? You erally don't have anything else? Everybody with diabetese should be working with your doctor. If you catch it early enough the doc will work with you on diet and excercise and regular glucose testing. If you cannot keep in normal limits medication may be used. If that doesn't work only then will insulin be advised.

Diet is the first course or treatment, insulin last. I read your research from 1922, our understanding of diabetes has moved on, substantially, since then. I trust you have read mine, from this century?

Yeah a crazy site. Fine. Actually in type II it can negate for injecting insulin. But in type I, it can reduce. I should have been clearer. Still you seem to be arguing against the research still. You may suggest i do more learning. But may i also suggest the same. You started with this. When its not just about insulin levels, its also about sugar in the blood stream. And its not in and out of the blood stream its stopping it from going in to the fat. Which is, completely wrong. Thats correct. But i have been clear. Diet reduce insuline for type I. Can eleiminate insulin for type II. Whats the most prevelent type of diabetese? Type II. So whats wrong with concentrating on that?

Typo. Thats all you have left now. What i ws trying to say, is that it contradicts, you specificaly, who say diet has no effect its entirely about insulin. Which you cannot back up. I have never said diet is the only treatment. But i have posted research that says diet, excercise then insulin. And you? Nothing.

Not necessarily. Early on it type I it can be managed without insulin in some people. Not all. But some. Type I is not no insulin production, it can be very little and that can progressively get worse.

From the early 1900's. No what don't? Yes. Not EVERY post says that. But many do.

Some are abstracts only, some are not. My work is reasearch. I know how to use Pubmed and sitations. I do review of literature all the time. I work at one of the best hospitals in America.

Yeah i can see how that could be see and undo or cancel. That was inacurate. However its one word and everywhere else i have been pretty clear. I piosted a link that say can reduce by up to a third the amount of insulin for type I. I even reposted it. So its not really me misunderstanding that. I ain't getting confused about anything. Again i have made the distinction between I and II many times. I not only have several family memebers with diabetese, so i know the advice given to them. I have an uncle who went blind because he refused that advice. If you think i am picking and choosing, go read the entire link.

Where am i changing the goal posts? Very few type I diabetics create no insulin. Very few. Most create some.

Sorry to hear that. Are you type I? What it proves is in you it cannot. what it does prove as several people are trying to argue here is diet has no effect. It did have an effect. It does not work for 100% of people. Type I it can help for a while, its generally the first type of treatment. But as the reasearch i posted says, the worse your case, the faster you will have to use insulin after that. In type one it can reduce insulin, but at some stage you may have to up your dose more and more.

Thats not what i am saying, in fact i said several times (including my first post) raw food has nothing to do with this. I have also not said people should stop taking insulin. The research is clear, you can stop or reduce insulin with good food and excersise. So i am not trying to make the case for the OP. But nobody, but me, has included any research.. let alone solid.

I asked for evidence. Lets take a look what you cam up with shall we? http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/consumer/learn.htm 1922? 1922? Research for 1922? You must be joking. Hillarious! Carbohydrate metabolism! Which is what every single link i have posted says. Reduce carboydrates, which leads to less blood sugar and...... less or no insulin! You don't read these links do you?

Then it is a treatment. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*&defl=en&q=define:treatment&sa=X&ei=XHdhTPvmDY3enQf14ayODw&ved=0CBIQkAE

Sugar = Glucose. Now read that again where i changed one word from sugar to glucose. Its exactly what you just said. "Insulin just helps the body absorb the glucose in to fat, so it doesn't build up in the blood which causes hypoglycemia"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570767/ Please see above research or post a rebutal. Thanks.

No more opinions. Evidence. Look at this link. Whats the first course of treatment? Diet. Second? Excersise. Last? Insulin injections. http://www.emedicinehealth.com/diabetes/page6_em.htm This is from Mayo clinic in America, one of the best hospitals in the world. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diabetes-myths/MY00775 It's your blood glucose levels that determin if you go on insulin. Who would have thought that! "IF diet alone" THEN insulin is necessary. Get it yet? Not you must take insulin or die. But it is only nesseary if diet an excersise doesn't bring your levels within normal limits. http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/medicines_ez/index.htm "IF you cannot reach your target levels with food choices... you MAY need diabetic medication". http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/consumer/learn.htm Once again for type I. 1) Healthy eating. 2) Physical activity. and last 3) Insulin that must be balance with glucose levels (high or low) cause by food intake. Type II 1) Healthy eating 2) Physical activity 3) Insulin? NO! Testing. If you cannot put down the McDonalds then you can take insulin and keep eating McDonalds! http://www.diabetes.com/managing-diabetes-long-term/managing-diabetes.html "You may even need to take insulin".

And i wasn't the one getting mad and swearing or saying i am trying to kill people. So i hope thats not aimed at me. With all due respect. I have posted several links backing up the advise given to every diebetic by their doctor. Thats what seperates it from opinion. From perfect sources. You have posted nothing backing up yours.

Thanks for your opinion! You are clearly not reading my posts. PubMed is a free site that aggregates scientific research. Most of the links above are from there. It should be REAL easy to find something counter to what I am saying. 1..2..3.. GO! You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. You understand what a fallacy is and in the Universe thread show a basic understanding of multiverse theory. But you are so wrong here is frankly embarrassing. And yes you do owe me an appology, because i have not said once people should stop taking insulin. Strawman or please quote where i did sunshine.

I am not recommending anything sunshine. I am informing you with links and quotes to diabetic sites and the best research what is current advised. I would never recommend anybody stop taking insulin. Never said it, never would. But a diabetic has already been told that by their doctor. So calm down and an apology for that strawman would be nice. Links? To real research, I am done arguing with your flawed opinions. If you can offer something more substantive then offer it. Thanks.

Yes, its not a cure. If you bring your levels down to not requiring insulin you cannot then start to eat McDonalds and bucket loads of sugar again. You must continue the diet or continue with the bandaide and inject yourself with insulin.

Sorry that’s also not entirely correct. Type one means little to no insulin. It’s a small difference, but an important one. In most type I cases there is secretion of insulin. Diet can reduce insulin intake by up to a third in type I. See research above. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diabetes-treatment/DA00010 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188071/ What people are missing here is diabetics of both types test themselves regularly to see their blood sugar levels. They adjust insulin and sugar intake based off those results. The difference in levels is diet. Insulin then reduces sugar levels by allowing absorption. You can increase insulin secretion from diet and reduce glucose levels (created from carbohydrates by the body) by diet. Injecting insulin is a bandaide, its never even mentioned as a treatment, the only treatment for diebetics is diet. Full stop. This isn't new or controversial.

Really? Because this is such basic information thats been available for decades. Its really basic stuff that every diabetic (with a half decent doctor) is told. I assume you are not diabetic? Perhaps you can consult your expert freind and post a link of <b>research</b> (not weird web sites) that says insulin does not work in the way i explained and that diet cannot reverse the symptoms (but not cure) diebetes? Unless you can its an argument to authority fallacy again. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570767/