Here's one for the religious..

[PaliRichard]

My bold 1) "Many people who lack belief in God are dishonest. "

 

Indeed, whereas you fail to mention that ALL people who believe in God are dishonest in some respect. (this, of course, fits your agenda)[/Quote]

 

Why are people who believe in God dishonest?

 

That's assumption, again.

 

I have no agenda, I'm arguing against your flawed idea that Atheists have more common sense than Theists. People are people, some have common sense, some don't, some are Theists, some aren't, that's it, no agenda.

 

What agenda do you think I have?

 

"Maybe you should try wording things better or maybe you should try thinking about what you're saying"

 

Likewise[/Quote]

 

Explain?

 

My bold 2)

 

"Religious people are no more lacking in common sense than many Atheists"

Well, apart from the obvious point that they believe in a load of scientifically debunked old nonsense.

 

"you're starting to sound desperate now."

 

If you say so, oh enlightened one. Don't lose any sleep will you? I won't[/Quote]

 

I wont, but I have noticed that you are exceptionally poor at forming an actual argument. Soundbites are wonderful but hardly a measurement of common sense.

 

"OK then - what job, specifically do you think an Atheist (let's assume they aren't a lazy thief) would be better suited to? Baring in mind we're basing this solely on one having a belief in God and the other not and ignoring all other skill sets."

 

Religious education for one.

 

Why?

 

Unless you are now going to claim that a religious person is unable to separate their job from their beliefs that would make no difference whatsoever.

 

Surely you can do better than that?

 

What else?

 

What about for two? Or three?

[Jabroni]

Why are people who believe in God dishonest?

 

That's assumption, again.

 

I have no agenda, I'm arguing against your flawed idea that Atheists have more common sense than Theists. People are people, some have common sense, some don't, some are Theists, some aren't, that's it, no agenda.

 

What agenda do you think I have?

 

 

 

Explain?

 

 

 

I wont, but I have noticed that you are exceptionally poor at forming an actual argument. Soundbites are wonderful but hardly a measurement of common sense.

 

 

 

Why?

 

Unless you are now going to claim that a religious person is unable to separate their job from their beliefs that would make no difference whatsoever.

 

Surely you can do better than that?

 

What else?

 

What about for two? Or three?

 

 

You are asking more of me than I am you, why don't YOU back up all your assumptions instead of asking rhetorical questions as a form of grilling?

 

I've made my points, take it as you will.

[PaliRichard]

My apologies, you did state in fact that you follow a Buddhist code, which forms a path that is backed by philosophy, but you don't really study the philosophy. It's difficult however, to see any metamagical basis to this code - it seems to be mostly codes of abstainments as you've described it- hence why I saw you as more philosophical than religious. Do you engage with daily rituals at all- cleansing, food prep etc? If so do they aid your thinking process or would you rely mainly upon meditation for this?[/Quote]

 

I don't abide by daily rituals. I perform ritual opening and closing to formal meditation but not food prep or cleansing.

 

I wouldn't rely on meditation for aiding my thinking process, it has the by-product of allowing me to see situations in a much clearer light, and assess things that come up on many levels at once - but that's not why I meditate - that's just a 'side effect' if you will.

 

I meditate so I can see the subtleties of my own nature and abandon those traits I consider may be detrimental to the 'path', and cultivate those that are useful to it. But it's not a tool to aid in conscious thinking - like a handbook for problem solving - meditation, Buddhist meditation, is to facilitate seeing life without the, for want of a better word - ego - clouding judgement with its clinging nature.

 

I never actually said you were part of a westernised Buddhist group, in fact I said you'd selected a religion outside westernised culture[/Quote]

 

Sorry, maybe that was my interpretation of you saying

but perhaps you've chosen a religion based on the more modern western perspective[/Quote]

 

there are some Buddhist groups who avoid the Traditional aspects on purpose to cultivate a kind of 'pop' Buddhism. I thought that was what you were referring to, and that you were speaking of a religion

outside westernised culture[/Quote] as many people who join these westernised groups are often rebelling against traditional western religious values.

 

As neither of the above apply in my case that's why I commented.

 

I never said people with the schizotypal trait had a 'need' to believe, the trait simply gives them the ability to believe to a greater or lesser degree. I said they had a need to share anxiety in a thoughtful ritualised sanctuary (or 'sanctified') space.

 

So are you saying that people without the schizotypal trait have no ability to believe? That those without it cannot, rather than choose not to have religious belief?

 

---------- Post added 27-05-2013 at 18:55 ----------

 

You are asking more of me than I am you, why don't YOU back up all your assumptions instead of asking rhetorical questions as a form of grilling?[/Quote]

 

Then ask, I have nothing to hide from.

 

I disagreed with a statement you made, you have yet to, to my mind, quantify that statement - in fact the more I seek the quantification the more you seem to shrink away. I'm not 'grilling', I'm on a discussion forum discussing a subject that you chose to involve yourself in.

 

I've made my points, take it as you will.

 

If I wanted to listen to peoples 'points' I'd watch Youtube or read a blog, as I have come here, a discussion forum, to discuss ideas I am perfectly within my rights to ask questions based on statements you make.

 

If you want to say religion is wrong and are not willing to accept criticism of your points write a blog.

 

As I've already put to you, you're not obliged to be here, if you don't want to discuss simply don't comment, and if you don't want to be here go away. No one's forcing you to be here.

[janie48]

 

I've made my points, take it as you will.

What points? and what questions have you answered?

I'm sorry you're leaving, I was so looking forward to a science lecture.

[Jabroni]

I don't abide by daily rituals. I perform ritual opening and closing to formal meditation but not food prep or cleansing.

 

I wouldn't rely on meditation for aiding my thinking process, it has the by-product of allowing me to see situations in a much clearer light, and assess things that come up on many levels at once - but that's not why I meditate - that's just a 'side effect' if you will.

 

I meditate so I can see the subtleties of my own nature and abandon those traits I consider may be detrimental to the 'path', and cultivate those that are useful to it. But it's not a tool to aid in conscious thinking - like a handbook for problem solving - meditation, Buddhist meditation, is to facilitate seeing life without the, for want of a better word - ego - clouding judgement with its clinging nature.

 

 

 

Sorry, maybe that was my interpretation of you saying

 

there are some Buddhist groups who avoid the Traditional aspects on purpose to cultivate a kind of 'pop' Buddhism. I thought that was what you were referring to, and that you were speaking of a religion as many people who join these westernised groups are often rebelling against traditional western religious values.

 

As neither of the above apply in my case that's why I commented.

 

 

 

So are you saying that people without the schizotypal trait have no ability to believe? That those without it cannot, rather than choose not to have religious belief?

 

---------- Post added 27-05-2013 at 18:55 ----------

 

 

Then ask, I have nothing to hide from.

 

I disagreed with a statement you made, you have yet to, to my mind, quantify that statement - in fact the more I seek the quantification the more you seem to shrink away. I'm not 'grilling', I'm on a discussion forum discussing a subject that you chose to involve yourself in.

 

 

 

If I wanted to listen to peoples 'points' I'd watch Youtube or read a blog, as I have come here, a discussion forum, to discuss ideas I am perfectly within my rights to ask questions based on statements you make.

 

If you want to say religion is wrong and are not willing to accept criticism of your points write a blog.

 

As I've already put to you, you're not obliged to be here, if you don't want to discuss simply don't comment, and if you don't want to be here go away. No one's forcing you to be here.

 

I could write a bullet proof essay on the whole thing If I wanted to. You would still try and pick it apart, haven't got the time or energy for it. See, I've had these debates before, they go on and on. How about people can have different opinions on subjects?

 

To be honest if you asked any questions worth answering I'd be more than happy, but you are talking nonsense if I'm honest.

[flamingjimmy]

What points? and what questions have you answered?

I'm sorry you're leaving, I was so looking forward to a science lecture.

 

I'm not so sure it would be up to scratch from this guy.

[Jabroni]

What points? and what questions have you answered?

I'm sorry you're leaving, I was so looking forward to a science lecture.

 

I very much doubt that you pay much attention to science at all, so keep your patronising to yourself.

[flamingjimmy]

I very much doubt that you pay much attention to science at all, so save your patronising to yourself.

 

You're not wrong there either!

[Jabroni]

---------- Post added 27-05-2013 at 19:29 ----------

 

[/color]

I'm not so sure it would be up to scratch from this guy.

 

You're not wrong there either!

 

What on earth are you talking about?

[PaliRichard]

I could write a bullet proof essay on the whole thing If I wanted to. You would still try and pick it apart, haven't got the time or energy for it. See, I've had these debates before, they go on and on. How about people can have different opinions on subjects?

 

To be honest if you asked any questions worth answering I'd be more than happy, but you are talking nonsense if I'm honest.

 

Is this how it's going to be?

 

You're going to come, make a statement, and when it's challenged say 'I am right but can't be bothered to go into it'?

 

I've heard that before. It usually comes from those religious people this thread is aimed at.

 

Like I said, I come here to discuss, not to pander to ego's, if you're so sure, go into it, answer my questions, if not go away.