miggy

Nimrod I definately take your point altho the situation is a bit different. Cigarettes had one big thing going for them - money. This bought an awful lot of "faith" unfortunately. Few people think weed is good for you, unlike how cigarettes are sold. People are more aware these days. It's also far less addictive than nicotine. They really are different things, not like for like. Still, you are right to some extent tho, and f_g unfortunately proves your point. I do wish everyone got unbiased drug advice. Scare stories don't work at all. f_g you're wrong I'm afraid. Firstly smoking weed isn't dangerous, but if you mix with tobacco you could have the same problems as with cigarettes. Secondly taking weed in any form has risks. For the susceptable it can spark psychotic episodes. This is only a very small minority, just as a minority of people suffer severe reactions to any drug. However, regularly smoking (or taking) weed does have detrimental effects, at least according to the studies I know of and from experience of people who take rather too much. Weed is definately NOT good for you. It may make you feel better (the high) or may provide pain relief (MS, other) but good for you? Nope.

f_g, that's an easy answer but isn't necessarily true, and not does something being "natural" have any bearing whatsoever on it being good for you. A lot of commonplace drugs come originally from the natural environment.

And finally: "As for it's medicinal benefits, all of these can be obtained through the use of a prescribed legal drug. It's unnecessary to use an illegal drug and shouldn't be an excuse to flout the law." WRONG. Oh so wrong. Do you know any MS sufferers? I do. Do you know what helps them best? Cannabis. I'm talking people in their 40's and 50's, not what you'd see as druggies. Also, you'll find LSD being re-examined as a possible therapeutic drug in certain circumstances, MDMA came about and was used (and something similar may be used again) for the same reasons, speed is prescribed to US teenagers as a weightloss pill, anti-depressants with "suicidal" and potentially huge long-term problems are increasingly prescribed to children, etc. It's a complicated world we live in so stop seeing everything as right and wrong.

And for Nimrod: Why do you think people who smoke weed are sad? Why any sadder than those who drink alcohol, coffee, or smoke fags? Or eat chocolate? Or have other addictions, drug based or not? You certainly don't know what my neighbour would think. Or what my parents think. Whatever your opinion, you can see that people have their own thoughts, on whatever side. I know several of my staff drink and smoke, and some may smoke or take possibly less than legal substances. That's their choice. It's only my problem if it affects their work. I suspect your'd be shocked what people in the "creative" industries get up to. Or many students for that matter! I play football, and that DOES detrimentally affect my work (injuries), so should I be banned? It is an addiction of mine afterall. Like other fitness people, I get a high from certain forms of exercise - the internal effects, as pheno will tell you, are not dissimilar to certain drugs. You obviously have a thing about the word "drug". I'd suggest you look at a lot more things as "drugs" and actually learn about what each of them do, good and bad. All "drugs" have a good and bad side. I don't smoke dope, but I'd much rather people were smoking weed than boozing and getting violent/aggressive every weekend. I'd love you to come back and justify your position with facts rather than "ooh, drugs, bad, everyone knows it". If you're just uncomfortable with certain drugs than just say so. Don't be embaressed. Try and explain. Very intelligent and often happy people take various illegal and legal drugs, so it isn't stupidity or unhappiness [altho it can be, I don't dispute that].

Ok, in turn: JonJParr - you're comparing irrelevant examples. Your examples are a decision that DIRECTLY causes trouble for other people, one is not. This is a discussion about the legality, not about if we should obey the law. HOWEVER, I'd be willing to bet that every single person reading this breaks laws and many on a regular basis. It'll be pirated games or videos, lending someone a video or a tape that's a copy, photocopying text books, going faster than the speed limit, parking on a double yellow line, making an a**e of themselves after a beer too many, dodging a tax or two, etc etc. This isn't an excuse to break the law, I'm trying to show that if that's your one and only argument to lay into cannabis smokers then it simply doesn't play. WHY is it illegal, WHY are other drugs legal? Should the classification change? Should other drugs become illegal or prescribed? This is the argument, not "it's illegal to it must be a really nasty drug". No thought at all has gone into that argument and all the facts knacker it completely UNLESS you want to ban alcohol, fags, and several prescription drugs.

Ok, so you just think anything having a "strong" effect on the body should be banned or only for medicinal uses? That's more understandable. Don't you think it should be personal choice tho?

JonJParr, your reasoning is so flawed it's untrue. I can't believe you just wrote that after reading the posts. No logic there whatsoever. "One is a fine drink, the other is a drug" - that is completely subjective. You can take cannabis in many forms, you can even take it in drinks, in alcoholic drinks, in food, etc. It changes the taste. If it had been legal for decades you'd probably find some delicacies too. In fact you probably can find them anyway. One is socially acceptable in the west and is part of history, one is not. Go to eastern countries and you'll find it's much more the other way around, altho with other smoked drugs rather than cannabis. Take away the social norms you've been brought up with and be objective, not subjective. One is illegal and one is legal, you are right about this, but that's all. This isn't a valid argument considering we're discussing its legalisation or prohibition. Incidentally, and I don't know how true this is, I did read that one reason it is illegal in many western countries is partly due to profitability in the tea trade and the same profits couldn't be made from cannabis. As I said, absolutely no idea about the truth of this, perhaps someone can enlighten us.

Erm, I don't really get your point? I get the feeling some people here equate the word "drugs" with "bad". This is a shame as it's a much more complex subject than that, you just need to get past that association. Comes from the press and polticians as much as anything (a bunch of hypocrites!). "i just wonder what the law says about smoking weed and driving a car, being so 'laid back' and all..." Shouldn't be done, and I know several people who do, doh. Driving while tired is just as bad incidentally. "if you smoke weed you should in theory be losing braincells" You lose braincells anyway, and I think (tell me if I'm wrong) alchohol is worse in this respect. In fact alcohol is very bad for ayour body generally, minor exceptions of course. "It's an easy wate of money and it can put you away" What isn't a waste of money! 50 pairs of shoes, alcohol, tv? It can put you away - only if you have large amounts, and thats the legality argument of it. You can get put away for getting your tax wrong too, or being "dodgy" with it which an awful lot of people are.

Err, I best just state that neither of these is recommended! It's the sort of thing you do when you come out of a neurology lecture and have too much time on your hands

Without meaning to be condescending, alex's view could be partly down to his age [14 or 15 according to his profile]. Things often seem to much more black and white then. Alex, if you read through the thread, you'll find it isn't quite so simple. An awful lot of things are mind altering... I remember friends trying to smoke banana skins and also making nutmeg cakes!

Kat, Plenty of boys & gals on this board who go to indie/rock. Get a group together, have a few beers, and throw hair about.

Just checked the batfink setlist out - looks pretty good. Many people go?

I hate you all. I can hardly get out the door because of these bloody crutches. Yeah, could do with somewhere doing indie which isn't full of 20 year olds, but would there be enough of us?!

Well go out with some mates and not your bf. It's ok to go out separately - doesn't mean you'll get up to anything!

For those who say it's evil - I'd love to know how on earth you can justify it, other than to say "it's illegal" or "I don't drink, smoke, take caffeine, take pills of any kind". Neither of which are very good arguments IMHO. But then I'm both opinionated and in the mood for an argument.

If you're the sorta person who's gonna take hard drugs, of course you'll also have smoked weed! That's one of the dumbest arguments you can ever hear about keeping weed illegal. The same people will smoke fags and drink alcohol. Amazingly, I also believe they drink coffee and eat chocolate. Can you believe they can go round the corner and get them from tesco, even kids are allowed? Drug abusers are the sad ones, and I mean that sympathetically. Drug users are not necessarily the same thing. By that you can include all drugs, prescription, non-prescription, caffeine, etc. You can't go against one thing because it's illegal, and then not others. There is no right or wrong, it's all shades of grey. Alcohol is illegal in some countries and banned in many sects and religons. In those same places, smoking (more or less) dodgy substances isn't. Remember there are political and historical reasons behind illegal substances, it isn't just down to science. Although I'm not a fan of E, Speed, LSD et al, where do you think they came from? Do you know the history of why they were banned? Do you know the real stats behind death, injury, and mental health problems associated with drugs of all kinds? You'd probably be very surprised, particularly as regards speed and E (and derivatives). Don't believe the Daily Mail all the time. Bare in mind I'm quite anti-drugs, but people can do what they want. It shouldn't be up to me, you, or the govt. Not until it starts seriously affecting society. Which, funnily enough, alcohol is really doing at the moment. Just as it has numerous times in the past few hundred years in this country, if you know your history. Joe - you said if there is a small risk of it screwing with your mind, that's a reason to avoid it. Well, I think you'll find some legal drugs have that risk too. Also, there are risks with all sorts of activities - look at me, crippled by football injuries yet again, but I'll still play once my leg and arm are in one piece again. Stupid maybe, but my choice, and not doing anyone else any harm. I don't take stuff for the same reason as you I suspect, but I do drink because actually it's fun, in moderation, and hopefully isn't destroying my mind. As with many here, I've had some of my best nights when out drinking. I don't think thats sad, but I've written enough so won't go into why, for the moment! People can have great nights with mates, staying in, smoking dope and playing playstation. Refer to Mike Skinner lyrics here... hic

Oh, just tell yourself that he's probably gay. Clubbing in chesterfield, could be... interesting.

Some interesting comments from a few people who I think need to open their mind more. Without using dodgy substances I mean I chose not to smoke dope, but what others do is up to them. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. To whoever said that they don't wake up needing a drink, but they know people waking up needing a joint - think you'll find some people do wake up needing a drink. Or a fag. The addiction is mental as much as anything. With alcohol it's very much a physical addiction, some people being extremely prone to it. To those who said its sad that someone needs drugs to feel better - that was my opinion back when I was a kid. These days I know life is far more complicated than that. Your life, whoever you are, is full of substances that alter your mood. Chocolate, caffeine, alcohol, various prescribed drugs, various foods, etc. Smoking and eating mood altering substances has been common throughout history and throughout just about every tribe or nationality. Besides, why should people be prescribed drugs to stop them feeling really bad but not take them to improve an "ok" mood? These drugs often have serious long term effects and are addictive, but they're ok because a drug company manufacture them and they are legal? IMHO I'd rather half those out drinking in town on a friday night would be smoking dope instead. Rather more people get violent and aggressive and ill from alcohol than from dope (both proportionally and sheer numbers). Of course dope can be abused. I know people who have as I'm sure others do here. A small minority of people do suffer serious effects tool; those saying otherwise are ignoring the facts. People should be able to choose, but children should not. Apart from anything else, the drug war has many, many casualties across the world, not just with the users.

5_Hats if you don't like Jamie that's one thing [i don't either] BUT he's done an amazing thing here. It wasn't just for publicity - it was something that would have taken a great deal of effort. He's done something our spineless politicians wouldn't do, and they should have because it's there bloody job. Yes you can partly blame parents, but that never goes down well and they came up with excuses, usually bad ones when you really look at it. Diet has a real effect on health and personality. It's disgraceful that school dinners are so bad. Mind you, I always loved the deserts

What's antiks? Must have missed that one. Size of a cow - will they let me in on my crutches??? I'm a cripple for the time being See if I can tempt anyone else...

Shame you didn't like BBeach. Depends how alternative you like it, but Corporation is pretty alternative. For non guitar stuff I'm sure you'll find plenty to do on the events forum. Plenty of us peeps in sheffield into that sorta stuff.

I'm keeping an eye on those exo-skeleton jobbies. They can't come soon enough! I was thinking last night, if I had an artificial arm or leg, I'd even break that!

For those who know me as the man always breaking his arm, well I've added to the cripple list by smashing up my ankle too. The two combined makes using crutches interesting! Thats a total of 6 breaks, 3 in 7 months, 2 in the last months! Is it time to give up football? What do I do for the next few months? Answers on a postcard please... Maybe I should have drunk milk afterall... Anyway, thanks to those working at the Northern General. I had to do a lot of waiting about but they were all dead nice as usual.

Brighton Beach is on THIS FRIDAY. If any peeps here want to go drop me a line and I'll pick up some tix. We went down to it at the uni for the first time last month and it was pretty damn good. Also got very busy by 12am even though students were away.

Or try Brighton Beach http://www.brightonbeachclub.co.uk/sheffield/ "The club is split into two rooms: Room 1 pumping out classic sixties hits alongside the cream of British pop and new garage rock, while Room 2 provides a heady cocktail of 60’s soul, northern Jazz and Freakbeat."