salsafan

Nope, no bullying issues seen by me. Salsa and I had a discussion a wee while back about Sandwiches of all things...you know...really important stuff

 

I ended up leaving the discussion, because her self-contradictions drove me up the wall.

 

I happened to comment on another post she'd been involved in (not directly at her) where she commented that I was upset because she'd 'Trashed' me on the sandwich thread and she thought it was funny...very school-yard behaviour...

Oh ! Now I remember who you are. Because it was soon after that you actually came online and did not side with what I thought was a more common sense thread. Because I did not take your side in that particular argument. You then threw your anger onto another thread. I remember who you are now.

Quite weird that is.

I shall try and be brief and concise in my post (unlike some).

 

I don't condone 'trafficking' of people for a sex industry, monetary gain for a 'Boss' who is forcing someone to do something against their will.....BUT..

I've met a few prostitutes through my previous line of work, and there are many reasons the women do what they do...some stories were horrific, and TBH there were a few which were quite eye-opening and even reasons which I could totally understand.

This topic is not black or white, right or wrong, moral or immoral.

 

Salsa seems to have a problem with appreciating 'Grey' areas of a topic...discussions can be quite educational and thought provoking, but unless you agree with her opinion you're classed as a bully, she's used that quite often in previous threads.

 

The drug legislation in my opinion is wrong, there are certain recreational drugs that should be legalised and/or monitored.

 

Forcing things 'Underground' breeds criminal gangs...

 

I'm now going to have a large glass of Merlot, finish my crocheting and probably have a wee smoke before bed...I'm sure it'll help me decipher/understand Salsa's rambling, long-winded, badly written posts...they have a tendency to give me a headache if I try and read them in a sober state.

You see. I do not try to drug myself. I feel all the emotions as I read those comments and let it wash over me, even though it angers me so much.

Yes, this is my suffering and I react to it. Even though some people think that this is wrong, when in reality, I am reacting to their words. Their ideas, in their own minds. Even when I do not know them. They do not see their impact on others, and they do not see themselves through the eyes of many others either.

---------- Post added 10-04-2014 at 00:48 ----------

Does anyone else following this think ive bullied salsafan or been anything but reasonable towards her?

 

And salsafan, dont lower yourself to mention the "race card"!

I asked if you were chinese and gave the reason that the problem we dont see things the same way because of the differences between the cultures of east and west!

Saying that its the "race card" makes you guilty of playing it,not me.

I thought better of you than that.

To be honest. I do not trust you. Simple.

now you are asking for validation from others than to actually accept the fact that I do not find you honorable, and nor do I trust you. End of.

I've been watching this thread with great interest, and since someone has pointed out that very few women have put forth an opinion (not that I'm a well regarded member!), I shall add my two pence worth.

Thank you for coming online.

As for prostitution, I am slightly disturbed by how many of you are claiming it would be ok as long as it's legalised and controlled etc. It is effectively the worst form of exploitation of women I can think of, and to claim that they are "willing" in some cases is rather disingenuous, as many of those women only turn to this form of employment out of sheer desperation.

Some men do not believe this though. It is as if they think that this is wanted even on the side of the women who end up choosing to do this. I know you know that there is a big difference between "need" to that of "want". I am not so sure if the menfolks here actually get this.

Most women I know want to be wanted by one man. It takes a lot of emotional power and so forth to suppress that and do what they do. It is not all that natural either to the woman. They are supporting the idea of a woman going against her desire to be with a loving man of her own choice and do what she does ? I don't get why they seem to think this!

A further issue I have with it is that it addresses the complete non-problem of men (I'm sure there are a minority of women) having their "needs" met, by exploiting vulnerable young women. Needs? How many of you would suffer if you didn't get any sex? I mean seriously suffer? None. That's how many. To claim that this industry provides a needed service is absolute nonsense. If someone is feeling a certain level of discomfort by having not experienced orgasm for a prolonged period of time, then they have the option of taking care of it themselves.

I actually do think that there is a need actually. If a man is without sex, or without a partner to be emotionally connected to. Something happens to him psychologically. He may not feel as grounded and nor will he actually feel like he has a big purpose in life either. That is why you will see more men actually want this than not to support this. I read an article once before in the past regarding sexual relationships and the type that it exists.

There is a difference between aggressive sex to that of a loving relationship and sex within the realm of that. By offering this kind of sexual service, I fear that it will damage the guys more than they think it will. Cos they fail to see beyond the simple need which has not been met for a long time to that of what they personally dream and desire of. e.g. a committed monogamous relationship. Most you may find will just displace it onto something else. Rather than to actually acknowledge a relationship and its emotional and psychological effect that it has on himself.

It kind of worries me that there is a demand for this kind of thing in a Western developed country like the UK. Because it means that there is an awful lot of unfulfilled men in this country, and they do not know how to go about securing a steady and committed relationship at all. Also at the same time, they are not aware of their own behaviours, and that they may think they still need to "compete" aggressively, and is unable to acknowledge the need to focus and yet to also protect.

It seems to me to be a very damaging way for young women to earn money, and this is me harping about the "willing" participants - if we include the damage it does to those not willing, who are trafficked into the country, and forced to provide this kind of service, then it becomes a massively intolerable problem in my opinion. One could make the argument that if it is controlled and regulated, then it would provide safe environments for the women, and ensure everything operates "above board", however, does this in turn reduce the levels of illegal trafficking and unregulated prostitution? I doubt it. I have to admit I wouldn't support the regulation and control of the industry at all - despite the safety it may provide for some women, it is, in my eyes, the single worst way of encouraging society to view women primarily as sexual objects, whose main purpose is to provide services to men.

There should not be a need and a demand to begin with. The fact that there is, and the fact that people are now more socially mobile, and cannot find a partner to settle down with is possibly half the problem to begin with. As well as many others do not support one another, and people do not actually live and build communities any more, find work, and build up big network all attribute to this kind of "pic n mix" lifestyle.

The increasing number of dating sites is reducing the amount of this behaviour from happening.

You constantly contradict yourself in your posts.

And you are following me ? Why are you doing that ? Yet you seem to be angst when I did not take your bait and offer of trust even after you told me that I am deluded ?? So you actually "slated me personally" and expect me to trust you publically ? Are you off your mind ?

Women can indeed have a higher IQ than a man and i totally respect that, as i respect your right to have a voice and express an opinion.

That extends to the fact that they also have the right to act however they like and do whatever they like be that follow a certain religion or prostitute themselves to make money if thats what they decide to do.

Who am i to try to stop them from doing that?

Don't talk to me about "freedom" and expressions and concerns and so forth, when in reality you do not talk the talk and walk the walk. So save me your "lines".

I can offer advice and a point of view if they ask for it but i cant just demand that they or anyone else do anything other than what they choose.

You are "offering" ? If you wanted to help me then you should've done things differently but you did not. You did not choose to do that. That speaks volume in itself. Just as much as you brought up that Female Mutiliation subject. some things do not need to be said to be understood. If you had any ounce of EQ and understanding, then you would not have participated either.

Its like your example of someone walking towards a hole, i can tell them they are heading towards it but do you know what,some people will carry on walking regerdless of what i say, maybe they will think im lying? Maybe they will think the hole isnt so deep as to trouble them?

If you know them and that they trust what you say then obviously not. What have you done to gain their trust to begin with ? Or you would have offered them jobs so that they can look after themselves, and not point out the obvious and say "Hey, that is a hole. Did you know?" AND ?

Stupid person will say: "Hey, that is a hole."

A wise person will say: "Hey, I saw some job adverts here before. Are you looking for a job?"

As I said, a lot of talk, and BS in the current world and not a lot of decent and wise people.

As you said, it is free will isn't it ? Their choice.

Its free choice and you cant seem to be able to grasp the concept as i see things.

Ive interacted with you and shown you no malice but you continue to reply saying im not an honourable man or a good man!

You seem to be judging me on your interpretation of what im saying and not my actual words!

You are the person who mentioned "honor". I do no see it. As I do not see that you have that to be honest. Especially after you slated me to begin with and then expect me to be co-erced and believe what you say.

Im assuming you are of chinese origin but i may be wrong, maybe its cultural differences between east and west? I really dont know how im causing you offence! Im interacting with you in a respectful manner, i just dont share your point of view on some issues.

Oh my goodness, the race card is out. That did not take long.

Gosh, I realised something, you are a moron.

I cant enforce my will on people and make them do what i personally think is right or wrong and neither can you.

The differences between people are what makes the world what it is, you just have to accept it even though its not your way.

Maybe you do not have compassion. Even when I showed you those articles by that woman, you then failed to actually agree that it is actually a bad thing. EVEN when others WRITE and say that it IS bad, you still fail to accept and acknowledge that it IS bad. Yet you asked me to accept you as a honorable person when those simple things are said and done and others actually is self aware and admit that it was a bad thing to have done on her own behalf.

I actually applaud her for being so brave to say that in that forum.

Because you could not see it from the female's perspective, such that, you will and do target people like myself for speaking out ?? Oh my God !

Barkin.

...............

Do you support people who use drugs, and do you use drug yourself ?

.....

You seem to be under the impression that all women in prostitution are forced into it and thats clearly not the case in all instances.

In some instances maybe and im right behind you on that point but not all men are to blame for this.

You seem to put things into little boxes in your mind and cant seem to see any middle ground or accept you might not be completely right.

 

....

I quoted the paragraph whereby a young woman shared with us her story and that she was sick and disgusted even when she did it. She shared this information with everyone else on that site Mum's net. Womenfolk knows that this is not good. We know that. She knows that. Don't you know it ??? It will break you. It broke her. She acted out afterwards. Psychologically is not good. Emotionally it is not good.

You are trying to tell me that you would not actually try and persuade someone not to do something like that and let them actually be in that situation which break themselves ?

I am not going to give sympathies for the men. They know. They know it is wrong.

By now, as adults, they should know what loneliness means, and what it means to be in a relationship. What is lust. What is love. What is sex. What is love.

If they do not know, then there is something wrong with that.

---------- Post added 09-04-2014 at 23:36 ----------

again your chatting utter rubbish:loopy:is that the best you can come up with ? I think you lost this argument with everybody hours ago ! just because I smoke weed does not mean I have no morals or that iam not honourable.you just don't agree with what I and thousands of other people in Sheffield do.just like I don't agree with people like you. you run your mouth off, yet your argument is flawed.thats why people are giving you grief and you deserve it.you try to make out like you are better than everybody else, your not love.

When the drugs die out, and when it comes out of your system. When you see those who you drugged, and those who you drugged and then they did bad things in the name of your drugs.

God help you. Really. God help you.

I never expect to walk into a Sheffield drugs baron online.

The fgm thread was about women having a voice to speak against it, as a man i have the right to an opinion on that too im afraid and i posted on that thread to explain that.

I cant see how ive acted in a manner towards you that you could take offence to,im trying to be sympathetic to you.

 

You seem to be under the impression that all women in prostitution are forced into it and thats clearly not the case in all instances.

In some instances maybe and im right behind you on that point but not all men are to blame for this.

You seem to put things into little boxes in your mind and cant seem to see any middle ground or accept you might not be completely right.

 

Im sure youll say im attacking you for saying that! Its not going to stop me expressing that opinion though.

For me to not tell you the truth because you have a tendancy to get upset about it would be more akin to you bullying me emotionally so i didnt disagree with you.

This speaks volume. If women can have a higher IQ and enter into debates, then why do men cannot extend that sympathy, man up, and see women as emotive and NOT go for prostitutes regardless ? If you do not support prostitution then it means that the demand do not exist, and that there shall be women freed everywhere in this world. It is that simple.

Women folk know what loneliness means, and if you remove the need to find a proper relationship and push men and women into actual isolation and force them into this kind of thing then there is nothing left of humanity.

As I said, "I am alright Jack".

Your voice speaks volume upon volume. At the end of the day, your words travel and it affect others than it affects you. You do not see the power of words. Maybe others do, but you do not.

You couldn't even tell when I got upset to when I have not gotten upset and is trying to fight. Then I get called deluded ? That is very astute of you. Then you ask me to trust you ?

But the point is that these women acted of their own accord in the first instance,they werent forced to go down the path, they chose to do so of their own free will.

Its called a regret, im sure we all have them and have to live with them, its part of life.

You get further if you take the regret on the chin and accept its your own fault than trying to rewrite history and blame someone else.

Some want to live a blameless life and be a victim rather than admit that we made an error of judgement or a mistake.

When you see somebody suffering, then what do you do ? One would stop that suffering for them. Even when some people tell you of their regrets or of their own deep suffering, then what do you do ? A decent and honorable person would then offer them opportunities and a way forward. No, some people here actually do not listen to their own neighbors and actually advices that this to be continued, even when it is openly, blatantly obvious that these women do NOT enjoy this. Yet, others say that they enjoy this and need to, and see no problem with it. For many others, and if we are women folk, then we would ask them not to do that and find and help them find another method to make money or to find work. That is what being compassionate means. Not to see someone walking towards a hole, you see it, do not comment, and then let them drop into the hole. That is not compassion.

You know, somebody once mentioned this phrase towards me. That I have an issue seeing the big picture and say what I like and not to listen to them. I laughed. I also now realised that you as a man, do not listen to women, or to be able to find and understand how to protect themselves. Instead, you openly "ask" me not to do something. But you failed to also protect me to begin with because you fail to see what the issue here is about.

If you were a decent man, then you would have fought for what is right. But you don't. You do not fight those who actually advocated prostitution cos you do not see what is wrong with it to begin with. Where is your own empathy ?

As someone recently said, a woman's happiness is to find a man that can offer her this happiness. For a man, a man's happiness is to find a woman who can be loyal and stick around and be his partner for life.

So you are saying that you wish to deny a man, or a woman of this in their own life time ? You would wish to encourage their own disillusion and actually advocate this ?

Sorry, you do disappoint me.

no I didn't read it because iam not interested in the story, it has nothing to do with what I do or the way I live my life, like I said, my drug money goes to somebody I know.That money pays his mortgage and bills. I certainly would not purchase substances which I do not know what is in them, nor would I give money for drugs that in turn, fund human or arms trafficking. I, like yourself have morals

 

---------- Post added 09-04-2014 at 22:35 ----------

 

morals and laws are completely different. laws change, dependent upon where you are, your morals do not change

So you are okay Jack. I see. Yet you are okay Jack, but you still say that you have decent moral values ? (That would also include "love thy neighbour" ?) That makes a lot of sense.

So you are so open and so "honest" that you have decided to tell me that you built your own drug supply-chain with your friends ? Oh, I see. That is upmost honorable of you to say so.

Im not trying to shush you as you claim, you have the right to an opinion and the freedom to speak it as you wish, id defend your right to do so at any cost.

Really ? Well, you sure pick and challenge the wrong kind of threads.

I find it strange that on a previous thread on fgm it was you who were telling people to shush because you said they had no right to comment as they werent muslim! Double standards there im afraid.

That thread is about women. This thread is about men. Do you see the difference here? It was that thread which some people actually and deliberately push out the female writers.

I actually had a break down that night I read that Female Mutilation Thread. I did. I actually cried so much. You have no idea. I actually expressed this openly, and then I got further antagonism. I talked to my bf about that, and he said to best avoid that. It really made me cringed to the heart, and I read it in a way which actually made me feel physically sick?

I couldn't take that. If I was younger and I read and saw how adults behaved that way. I would probably become more cynical, and will possibly want to kill myself. Especially if those kind of threads exist day in day out. I pleaded the mod to remove that. They did not. I then got harassed in the most immoral wrong way for even voicing my disgust. I then got called "sensitive" remember ? Some people then objectified the situation and gave me some nasty names, don't you remember ? They then used horrible female genitalia parts to throw back the argument in my face. I called them hyenas, cos they were indeed acting very very how to say, feral. Some women gentified the existing men who wrote about that. Some then said that they shouldn't have their "voice" stopped. Well, I am asking you, why is my voice being stopped right now ? Why are people not actually stop women being actually manipulated and actually groomed into this kind of disgusting industry ? Those same people then can openly say that "there is nothing wrong".

I wanted to say that they should not superb!tch about something which obviously affect other people so much that it is so bad for any bystanders to see and read. If they are not the people who is actually injured, then they should not speak as if this is a way for them to act out so vocally. In truth, I wanted them to stop talking about that disgusting subject. If you were a woman and you see people acting so socially inappropiate wouldn't you actually act out and stand up and say something ? Those same people state that they are standing for others. Who ? Who are they standing up for ?? If they respected me, then they would have stopped doing that. But they didn't. They couldn't bring that respect back to some form of normality. They do not know that boundary and nor do they care.

I didnt label you as mentally ill, i expressed a concern for your mental welfare after reading your posts on here.

Why should you care ? If you cared, then you would not have written what you did. You state this, but I hardly know you and you continue to also harass me too same with the others. I do not see that as the way to go.

You do not know me personally, that much is true, i can however tell you im a very honourable person.

To me you are not. Cos if you are, you would've done this much more diplomatically than you had done. Sorry to say this to you, but that is the truth.

It wasnt an attack, it was and still is a concern.

If you were concerned, than you would have stood up for what is morally right. But you have not. You could not place yourself in the situation of those poor women, and nor could you actually put yourself in the situation of these women that this thread is talking of either.

? ? ?? ? ?

Why isn't anyone talking about prostitution, drugs, and the fact that it exists and it brings people down ?

Do you guys like skating ?

I really admire these ladies for being so frank and open.

quicknamechange111 Mon 10-Feb-14 11:52:14

I can't believe Amnesty have done this. I was a sex worker, not prostitution but I was on a well known website and would offer services via webcam, telephone, texts. I'd take specific photos for people for money to and text chat. I made OK money from it. I was very young, 18/19 and a lot of men got off on how young I was. Infact, I used to use that as my main description of how young I was. I was a student at the time and had moved out and had next to no money. I cannot even imagine how it feels to sleep with men for money but I felt utterly degraded doing what I did. I guess I will never understand how anyone can enjoy it so it's difficult for me to comment. Some men would insist on cam to cam (so they turned their cam on to) I used to cover the laptop with a tea towel so I couldn't see them. It made me feel sick.

 

I did it for about a year and I remember feeling very unwanted. I never once felt desired by these men. It made me feel like a sex object and nothing more. I went on to have some really severe self esteem issues. I ended up having lots of one night stands on nights out in an attempt to make me feel "wanted" It never worked. I just felt used and even worse. I don't know whether me doing these things has been linked to my self esteem but it took me years to realize that no matter how many men "wanted" me it was never going to make me feel any better. These sort of men will ---- anyone, the way you look, the way you are doesn't come into it. I also did it to gain some "control" over my life but it never made it any better.

 

I was never raped as a child or anything but I did have some bad experiences. I had men grab at me and one force me against a wall touching me at 14 and I never said anything but looking back I know it was wrong.

 

This thread has really upset me and I really admire all the posts from Numpty she speaks a lot of sense and knows what she is talking about.

In Confucianism:

Mind = Heart = Body = Moral Values.

Don't tell me that just because some people "say" things on the internet automatically means that the action that they lead in their own life makes them moral. Don't say that just because others say that they are moral, that they are moral. It needs to be backed up by actions too.

If you are out of sync in what you say and what you do, and your intention is not what it is achieving, then what are you doing ?

Even the girl above cannot handle what she did. She felt physically sick, but she did not tell anybody. She pushed herself to do something which she did not wanted to do. That is making her out of sync with herself physically and spiritually. Then this pushed her hedonism to a large extent and that made her life what it was until she came to the realisation of the original trigger. She still has to live with this in her life. It does not go away.

I have no idea what your on about. You should take a holiday to Holland. I know exactly what I write and meant every word. I can't put on here what I really think about people like you.

Yes, I have been to Amsterdam 3 times. I have not been to a show, and I have not smoked. Was it tempting and did it tempt my curiosity? I must admit that it did. Am I glad that I never did it ? YES ! Am I much "cleaner" in my mind and spirit these days ? Yes. I also cut out clubbing music, and I also cut out trance music which I was influenced in when I went to university here. I also now in hindsight can see the hedonism, and the bullying and the kind of fighting which goes on amongst people, and I never stepped in either. Maybe because I am getting old now. Old enough to be someone's mother that I truly see the world in that fearful and realistic way. That kind of perception and that protective and want it to be better, kind of way.

Hey, we all have to stop running and count our blessings sometime. Do the right things. And throw out the bad things. I am not "struggling" as you so say. My eyes obviously can turn blind if I so wish, but I do not wish to.

Just because some women choose to keep their mouth shut and not express their own mind in case they themselves get changed by the experience does not mean that we should not speak out entirely even when we see something so obviously as wrong. There is only so much diplomacy that one can indeed hold until the breaking point comes and that one has to stand strong.

For the next generation.

Did you read this mumsnet thread? I am curious.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/a1982419-Amnestys-proposal-to-legalise-prostitution-is-wrong-we-cant-let-men-who-exploit-women-off-the-hook

rhino, you acknowledge the quotes are not 'made up' now?

 

And do you really think Hannah being 'enthusiastic' makes a difference to my opinion of these field reports? Prostitutes are paid to appear enthusiastic, regardless of whether they really feel it. Unfortunately of course, there are plenty on there where the women were far from enthusiastic, and in filthy surroundings - but the punters still go ahead anyway. Cos they've paid their money, haven't they?

 

Positive reports are on there too - but the fact remains that the punters are rating women like cattle at a market, using the most misogynistic language to do so, and caring little for their actual welfare.

WhentheRed Sat 08-Feb-14 19:05:18

Prostitution absolutely is dangerous. It is dangerous because there are people who believe that prostitutes are not autonomous human beings with the right to life and property.

 

Those people are called pimps and punters. They are the primary source of danger to women in prostitution. They are always men.

 

Violence against prostitutes fits squarely within the category of male violence towards women. It is based on the ideology that women are less than men and less than human, and that women in prostitution are on the lowest rung of womanhood, with street prostitutes being on the lowest rung of prostitutes. The very existence of prostitution reinforces and supports that ideology.

Or sons? Here are two men who sell sex to women.

 

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/whnews/whnews_20140408-1231a.mp3 starts at 27m 30 sec.

Thanks for posting this. I am listening to this now. I actually think that the men actually is really seeing this wrongly. I did cringe at this. Cos in a way, they are kind of entering this "voyeurism" into the idea of human emotions aren't they ? I do wonder if they would turn out this way if they were actually brought up in a different way. Meaning that they are brought up in a more empathetic environment, and not pressurised for themselves to now displace this kind of hidden emotion into this "service" which they call.

I personally believe that men can have emotions, and they can also have traumas also with others. Especially in the day to day work which they held inside of them.

The male prostitute is comparing his industry to that of the food industry ? Oh my God.

For a First World Country, we are actually very very stupid, and foolish.

"My nieces and nephew thinks it is okay."

"My Mother would not understand."

I accept your viewpoint. Your just wrong and have alot of issues you need to work on. I argued with you. I shot you down. Accept it and accept the world you live in. If you can't then you will struggle. Maybe this is why you go to church? Does it make you feel like your morraly correct?

Ooooh. You fell from grace already and now want to throw your own inner built in angst and would actually drag others down with you. So this is your way of "helping" me ? Oh I see.

Sorry. No. I do not buy it.

Did you not read? I wrote I am a Taoist. I asked if you have been to church.

People can talk a lot of talk, but truly, I wonder if you ever reflect on what you say and write ?

did you genuinely read that article about the 11 year old in Sheffield. Who was manipulated and then trafficked into the seedy industry ? Because if you did, would that article not trigger an ounce of father instinct or a protective instinct from within yourself at all ? It should. I do worry if it does not. Because you fuel that demand of the same industry which she got dragged into. Maybe there are hopes for you yet if you reject this kind of seediness, and do not even support it !

Not very good at putting her deluded point across either. You obviously need help and the church won't help. The fact nobody agrees with you is a hint that you should re evulate your view on the world. You are just making yourself look stupid Iam afraid.

Oh God. So you have a female like me rejecting someone like yourself and your views because you are not entirely moral and clean. So instead of getting some balls and stand up to argue and accept certain viewpoints, you actually would attack me personally and then call me deluded ?

You do not have will powers do you ?

I do not care if I look stupid. I care more for these women because they are being manipulated. Obviously men like yourself will always fuel the prostitution industry, and you think that it is okay. Seriously. More fool you.

Did you read the article about the 11 year old ? She was manipulated into the industry because she had an argument with her mother.

---------- Post added 09-04-2014 at 20:47 ----------

I love women, that is why I want them to be able to make up their own mind about how they make a living. I have already said that legalised prostitution is good for women, I have also pointed out that women are not the only gender to be prostitutes.

You love women and that is why you support them in this ?

Let me put that through my filter. "I like women to be there to be my pleasure bunny as and when I like it to be, especially if my current relationship may fail and fall down to pieces."

Don't be selfish. Because if you do. Other men and women shall never self actualise, and you also shall never self actualise and not suffer in this life time.

---------- Post added 09-04-2014 at 20:50 ----------

Good luck with that one

 

I say let them do what they want, as long as its done safely and does not spread decease or fuel the drug trade. Legalise it and have proper safe guards in place

If you do not want your missus to do this kind of job, why expect other women would want this too ?

I am not the only one. You are just too chicken to fight against guys who want this kind of thing.

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/a1982419-Amnestys-proposal-to-legalise-prostitution-is-wrong-we-cant-let-men-who-exploit-women-off-the-hook

I had a step daughter and that is all you need to know. You are losing any respect i had for you by deliberately being an antagonist. You are not very good at it.

Like-wise.

I do not see myself as the antagonist. I see others as being the antagonist. It is funny how you do not see that at all.

If I am not good at what I am doing, then why are you responding ?

Others are also as good as antagonising others too. Continually. Playing that sympathy card for women abroad or slavery, but then when it comes to the crunch, they do not stand up for women. They harass women like me to begin with. Feminism. Prostitution. On the other thread already, some random stupid guys starting to mess with me and touting me for dates. I mean...

I thought that this is the new equality generation. Can those men not actually have a higher than average EQ ? Especially if they care so much for their fellow females. I mean, that is if they want to dignify them, and so forth.

No... when it comes down to it. Men still see prostitution as a need. Until they fix this issue. Women will always be in danger and manipulated.

Im also well known for speaking as i find and saying what i think.

My post was purely out of concern for you, the fact you chose to see it as a personal attack is worrying in itself.

All i can say is give it some thought at a later date.

Well, class me as one of those case "who did not manage to make it in society" then, and label me with a "mental illness" kind of person if you so wish.

Marginalise me as you so wish, and shush me, by not being open, and discussing this in an open-minded way.

If people cared for others as you say,, then they should have kept their mouth shut on certain topics, and not even write about it. Speak no evil. But no... they like to bring these subjects for this discussion, and they actually do not even embrace compassion for their fellow man. Their "voice" is louder than their action. They can tell you to "shush" but they do not make you laugh. Or to hide away certain topics from being discussed and read.

There is no "honor" in that.

It was yourself who chose to write what you did, and it was you who chose to expect me to accept your way, your words, and actually your value, in that specific niche way. I'm sorry, I do not even know you. Personally or publically. Why should I trust you on that level ?

I did so well? You were berating me in your previous post.

 

Liberalism does indeed not mean a lack of morality, it does however mean the conviction that people are free to choose their own path in life. There are plenty of people in prostitution that choose to do so, as the Dutch can tell you. Heck, I went to school with a girl who's mum came into class to talk about prostitution and the risks involved with sex and STDs. She spoke from experience I might add.

 

What is so bad about sex? We have to come into the world somehow you know.

Do you actually have children ?

Salsafan

 

Ive spoken out on here a few times about drug use and the posts are there for all to see so in a small way i agree with you on that point.

 

Can i say though that the way you seem to melt down and strike out worries me greatly.

Im not trying to put you down or invalidate your opinion at all by the way.

Sometimes the things you say seem to go against the values you claim to hold,if you are the kind of person you are claiming to be then a little "live and let live" attitude would work well for you, not the "ill treat people as they treat me" attitude.

It means you are sinking to their level to do that.

 

The some men are scum line seems to go against your ethos on life and i think you need to get your head round the fact that some women actually do strip or prositute themselves to make money as a choice, its not all forced.

 

Without trying to sound like im attacking you i would have to agree that maybe a self emposed break from the forum might help you to focus and re-evaluate who you are and your views.

In short salsafan, with all honesty i worry about your mental health when i read your posts sometimes, and im not saying that to try to belittle you in any way at all, im being serious.

I stand by my values. I do not stand by your judgments.

I do play the devil's advocate card, and as you can see, many people here do the same too, as those who say that they are a particular kind of person and so forth. When it comes down to the crunch, they do not stand for what they themselves believe in too. Especially when you look into their own lives.

I am a Taoist, and I go by the flow. If it needs to, then say it. The truth has to come out and be made aware of. They deliberately hurt me already by being personal, or by putting off putting topics on hand. Now it is their turn too. I wonder if they see this. Maybe not, but obviously, to me, this is now "political" isn't it ?

This is the internet, and freedom of speech is all that count, right ? I am not so sure that you are concerned for my well being than I think you are far more concerned about other people's antagonism and reaction based on their own psyche, and what they read and is exposed to.

I have plenty of experience in life to know sex is a perfectly normal activity that prudish people are way too scared off.

Gosh. I did not expect that line from you...

You know, not all Dutch people support the Redlight district. I know this much. Nor will they use it. Their tolerance level is sky high and I actually truly have to bow down to them on this regard.

Maybe I was naive too when I was younger and not see things for what they are. The music industry and the clubbing industry, along with these kind of seedy places, really has opened an entire kettle of fish altogether.

And what is wrong with you? You did so well up to this point onwards ! Liberalism does not mean lack of morality, or compassion for what is right.

What's that got to do with anything? Bloke goes for a pint. Prostitutes go for a port and lemon at the same bar after their work. Where's the problem? Ok maybe he should drink elsewhere but if everyone did that the bar would shut and the prostitutes go to another bar. Your bar. Then what?

Oh my God. Don't give me that naive card. You know how businesses work right ? Supply and demand. It is a simple concept.

Did you read any of these links ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8457172.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8403411.stm

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/a1982419-Amnestys-proposal-to-legalise-prostitution-is-wrong-we-cant-let-men-who-exploit-women-off-the-hook

You keep on giving the demand, and some mugs will supply it. By hook, or by crook. You do not even feel an ounce of sadness for those who work in this industry, and that they may not and cannot even settle into a nice decent job, with families, and have the same kind of security that you would want for yourself ?

The other thing is, you do not want to be in a relationship with the opposite sex, and actually have a decent life, and have a good work life balance, and without this kind of lust, or this kind of dramas to mess with your mind ? Do you mean to say to me that you actually want these women to stay in business, and that you would be that mug to also frequent this kind of place to drown one's sorrow, when one is down and stressed ? Where has your EQ gone ?

You know, when people talk of equality, men would also readily be expected to increase their own empathy and compassion too. Where did that go ? Remember, you talked of team work on another thread. But you do not want these women to also have the same life as you would want for yourself too ?

Having been a regular drinker in a bar where prostitutes went after a night's work, I can safely proclaim that the majority of women working the windows in the Netherlands are doing so fully compos mentis.

 

The same can't be said for those working the streets, many of whom were drug addicts. Prostitution always has and always will exist, it is better off legalised.

Do you have any daughters ? I like how you use those words "safely proclaim". Your presence, added to the demands, and you ought to know better whereby there is a demand, the supply will be delivered.

I like how so many people actually boycott supermarkets and entities just because they are not decent, or ethical, and nobody boycott this kind of thing. Double standards to me.

why am I naïve ? the demand for drugs in Sheffield is that big that we don't need to export or import. why would a foreign drug baron take money off people who grow their own weed here in sheffield ? you are immoral by judging people and you are a hypocrite by saying you are fighting for freedom from judgements when you judge things that YOU consider to be immoral.

I was calling the kettle black, and now the kettle is calling the pot black ?

Dignity, was ist das ? Let's throw it out the window. Do not judge the judger if you have done the deed. Because whenever someone mention this, you will still feel the hurt inside of yourself. This shall remain until you can get rid of it from your own life.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8457172.stm

Teenage rebellion, or is this the kind of prostitution that others are advocating ? Aren't you proud that this young woman brought in X amount for this country and on your behalf too ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8403411.stm

Really want to know what women thinks about Prostitution ? There you go !

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/a1982419-Amnestys-proposal-to-legalise-prostitution-is-wrong-we-cant-let-men-who-exploit-women-off-the-hook

Some men are scum. Speak no evil. Their "political grooming" stands very clear in the voice for "freedom" and because "the girls wants to".

---------- Post added 09-04-2014 at 19:46 ----------

I admire you for sticking to your guns, but I'm still confused as to why you think drug use is immoral. Also, do you consider alcohol and nicotine in the same vein?

As for you. I have no heck and no hell of a clue as to who you are, and don't message me to take the mick or for real that you asked me on a date. I find your attitude and style sick. Thanks !

If you do this again, I shall report you.

having lived in Amsterdam for 17 months in 2009, I know exactly how prostitution works, it works very well if regulated, iam fully aware that trafficking happens, I know exactly where my 'drug money goes',it does not leave Sheffield.my drugs are made in Sheffield, for a local lad like me

You are such a naive man....

More fool you. Especially if you like to think so.

except you judge drug users you hypocrite

Why should I not judge immoral acts ? Why am I a hypocrite when I do not use drugs myself ?

I never knew how people can stand tall and write the things that they do sometimes. I don't.