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Bus Lane/Bus Gate Cameras

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Let's face it, the Council are not really bothered about public or private transport, they just see this as a potential revenue stream.

 

When you complain about what they do to stop cars getting around smoothly, such as the Hillsborough farce, they say that they have to support public transport for funding reasons.

 

Every time you mention problems on the buses to them, they say they cannot do anything, its the private bus operators. The council do not really support public transport - how often do council officers attend meetings by car (with mileage paid by the council) rather than public transport?

 

I think its all fine words and hidden agendas.

 

Nohands, please engage brain before using keyboard. if as you you say there are problems on the buses, why complain when the council does do something about it, like keeping private cars out of the bus gates & lanes so they can run more efficiently?

 

What the revenue, if any, can be used for is to keep cars out of more bus facilities - abuse of these facilities is rife in Sheffield , it's like living in the wild west. Sheffield Cycle Campaign started a list of the bus lanes they would like to see cameras used on, because of the rampant abuse they see every day - however, they stopped when they realised it covered just about every bus facility in the city!

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Except the large sign that says 'all through traffic' next to an arrow?

 

You are clearly much cleverer and more observant than me. However for us stupid people the area is a bit "busy". There are lots of signs and people and cars and allsorts. You clearly know the area well, however is it ok that everyone that visits once in a while might get caught out and pays a fine?

 

"All through traffic" is often used as an advisory sign, it distracts from the meat of the problem which is "if you go this way, we'll fine you". My practical personal experience is that it caught me out and I got fined 30 quid. I wasn't wantonly using the bus lane. I have seen people use the bus lanes just to get round traffic, the cameras miss them 'cos they know how to get away with it. The result is that I get caught out and they don't. I just don't like it on a moral basis.

 

BTW I was also interested in what the camera was that saw me. Was it a normal civil CCTV or a police one?

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Thanks for the personal abuse, wildnorthlands. Whilst I may not agree with you, I wouldn't want to insult you. Indeed its a fair point that you make that this is the time to improve bus reliability.

 

The whole point is that if the council had designed it so that enforcement could be carried out without delaying other traffic, then we would not have had to wait so long for enforcement to happen. Therefore public transport using the area legally would not have faced such a level of delay for so long.

 

The council are not enforcing the bus/tram gate due to the problems with the road, they had planned it already. They are not funding any replacement for the bus service between Hillsborough centre and Middlewood Tavern for example.

 

The diversion to the buses is adding 5 minutes to the journey time. Inbound the journey time saving is around a minute, 3 minutes outbound, giving 2 minutes on average. This means the extra delay is about 3 minutes.

 

These figures are based on tram journey times provided by Planner 1; I have not seen any bus journey time savings quoted.

 

Badly designed facilities encourage abuse. Lack of enforcement encourages abuse. Once a facility reaches a certain level of abuse it does reduce respect for the law. Finally the council are doing something about it, but don't expect me to think that this is wonderful; Its all a bit late.

 

 

Nohands, please engage brain before using keyboard. if as you you say there are problems on the buses, why complain when the council does do something about it, like keeping private cars out of the bus gates & lanes so they can run more efficiently?

 

What the revenue, if any, can be used for is to keep cars out of more bus facilities - abuse of these facilities is rife in Sheffield , it's like living in the wild west. Sheffield Cycle Campaign started a list of the bus lanes they would like to see cameras used on, because of the rampant abuse they see every day - however, they stopped when they realised it covered just about every bus facility in the city!

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Y

"All through traffic" is often used as an advisory sign...

Maybe I need to go back to school then.

I always took that to mean 'everyone should go this way' (with indicated exceptions eg, buses).

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QUOTE "free public transport for all could be the ultimate lure to get the rest of us out of our motors".

 

It doesn't work. Bus travel was practically free before the late unlamented Nicholas Ridley deregulated public transport in 1986 - much to the annoyance of our council, who cherished the idea of free buses. In 1986 it cost just 10p to go from Middlewood to Snig Hill, but there was still too much traffic, mostly cars, while buses were often half-empty, swallowing huge subsidies. Fares rose by a factor of three in late 1986. A fare of 30p in 1986 would be a little over 60p now according to the Retail Price Index, but the same journey now costs £1.60. It's cheaper to drive, even avoiding bus lanes. Where the sense is in all this I don't know

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Trouble is there is no tolerance. At Hillsborough it is not obvious until you get there and then <snip>

 

 

Sorry, but the approach (at least 500 yds before) to Hillsborough corner, in all directions, has several signs warning of the camera enforcement, and the fact that it is a bus/tram only zone between certain hours. This gives you the opportunity to take an alternate route, or heck, even park up somewhere safe and ask a passer-by if they could recommend what the best way around is and/or try and phone someone at your destination and get other directions. Also, if a person doesn't see any of these signs, then they are driving without due care and attention.

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Page after page of excuses for speeding, going through bus/tram gates, ignoring road signs etc. etc. What is really upsetting everybody is that cameras catch people who are breaking the law, and these people are using the financial aspects as a smoke screen for their own inadequacies. You can pick and choose which laws you don't like, but you can't pick and choose which laws you should obey. If you don't like the law, then vote out the people who put it there, and vote in someone who'll change it for you. Better still, put yourself up for election on the "do away with bus gates" ticket, and see how far it gets you.

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BTW I was also interested in what the camera was that saw me. Was it a normal civil CCTV or a police one?

 

They're the Council's cameras, they look much like small civil CCTV cameras. There are a couple at Hillsborough Corner.

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Is it legal to use a bus lane to undertake, if someone's waiting in the car lane to turn right and there's a lot of traffic coming the other way? I do this all the time, it's better than sitting waiting and if there's no bus coming it does no harm to anyone, but would I get fined?

 

What if I pulled into the bus lane because an ambulance or fire engine was trying to overtake standing traffic coming in the other direction, again would I get a fine?

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-Public transport that runs through the Hillsborough bus and tram gates is showing much improved puncuality and reliability.

Due to an average journey time saving of 2.5 minutes... Seems unlikely that this could alter punctuality or reliability on a more than superficial level.

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Is it legal to use a bus lane to undertake, if someone's waiting in the car lane to turn right and there's a lot of traffic coming the other way? I do this all the time, it's better than sitting waiting and if there's no bus coming it does no harm to anyone, but would I get fined?

 

What if I pulled into the bus lane because an ambulance or fire engine was trying to overtake standing traffic coming in the other direction, again would I get a fine?

 

It isn't a bus lane, it's a bus/tram gate which is being enforced.

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Due to an average journey time saving of 2.5 minutes... Seems unlikely that this could alter punctuality or reliability on a more than superficial level.

 

for once i agree with cyclone, this little itty bit of road has no significant bearing on bus or tram punctuallity,in fact at peak times it has completely the opposite effect. i know coz i drive the buse's that run through that particular bus gate, we get held up more now than we did before at peak times just in different places. i.e either side of the bus gate/tram gate as the law abiding car drivers are bottle necked onto roads that are not big enough to cope with the extra traffic coupled with traffic light sequences that simply cannot cope with the levels of traffic using this area.

 

result is buse's lose time have to be adjusted which in turn results in lost mileage/ missed trips, which in turn results in huge delays for passengers as buse's are not then running to time in order to regain the lost mileage further along the various routes :loopy:

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