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How prevalent is atheism?

Are you an atheist?  

346 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you an atheist?

    • Yes
      202
    • No, I believe in a god(s) and practise a religion
      36
    • No, I believe in a god(s) but am non-practising
      38
    • I'm agnostic
      44
    • Just show me the results!
      26


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If people are making all sorts of trouble that is in opposition to the teaching of Christ, then I don't see how they can be Christians.

 

I'm not sure what you mean in the last paragraph?

 

Graheme,

 

Is the Pope Catholic?

 

Pope Alexander VI caused wars... by your definition he wasn't even a christian. The definition of religion and christianity you are using when saying religion is not the cause of wars, is not the normal usage.

 

Can you concede that using the normal definition of religion it is a cause for a lot of wars ?

 

Christian criticism of creationism

 

I made the explanation originally in post 352 on page 18.

 

My argument is not spurious consider.. from wikipedia on creationism:

Rowan Williams, stated his discomfort about teaching creationism, saying that creationism was "a kind of category mistake, as if the Bible were a theory like other theories."

 

Or Martin Luther "That person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the invisible things of God as though they were clearly perceptible in those things which have actually happened ... He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross." .... For George Murphy, Creationists are modern-day theologians of glory.

 

I think the way I expressed it is however clearer... (but that might just be my vanity). Basically if you prove the existence of god then he becomes a matter of fact. With matters of fact there can be no belief, no faith and no mystery of the divine. Creationism, if successful, would destroy what it seeks to prove.

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This wikipedia page gives a run down on the causes of war and religion seem well down on the list. It even says, "Religions and ideologies are seen as secondary factors that are being used to legitimate violence, but will not lead to violence by itself if no youth bulge is present."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

 

See what you think.

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Dear God ! Haven't the poll results answered the question ?? :rolleyes::)

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Dear God ! Haven't the poll results answered the question ?? :rolleyes::)

 

I suppose the poll has answered the question. Most people are atheist therefore most wars must be started by atheists seeing they are in the majority. :)

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I suppose the poll has answered the question. Most people are atheist therefore most wars must be started by atheists seeing they are in the majority. :)

 

There is an article on war and religion here:

War and Religion

 

What is worrying is the role of religion in current confrontations. Bush said the crusade word about Iraq and the US religious right is consistently a concern. This programme illustrates current fear of religious war:

endtimers

 

Look at this, if you think this is exageration:

Worldnet columnist wants The Abomination of Desolation

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There are some interesting pictures here. This one explains about God being a man of war. The picture explains it all.

 

I havent seen all the pictures but those I have seen are brill.

 

Thanks.

 

http://iam.shutterchance.com/photoblog/the_LORD,_He_is_a_man_of_war./

How exactly is that picture supposed to explain away ‘Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war’ and prevent people from interpreting that verse as condoning religious warfare?

 

Are you suggesting that that picture also somehow prevents people from interpreting:

 

Joshua 10:40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.

 

Pslam 18:32-35 It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect. He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places. He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

 

Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

 

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

 

And the multitude of other violent verses as condoning & inciting religious warfare?

 

This wikipedia page gives a run down on the causes of war and religion seem well down on the list. It even says, "Religions and ideologies are seen as secondary factors that are being used to legitimate violence, but will not lead to violence by itself if no youth bulge is present."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

 

See what you think.

So the last person who edited that Wikipedia page posted some stuff about ‘youth bulge theory’ why exactly are we supposed to be impressed by this?

 

I suppose the poll has answered the question. Most people are atheist therefore most wars must be started by atheists seeing they are in the majority. :)

So your argument that the self selecting 272 people active on Sheffield Forum today who voted in this thread's poll are responsible for the majority of wars throughout history :huh:

 

Do you have to take prescription medication to render yourself dumb enough to come to such conclusions or does it come naturally?

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I suppose the poll has answered the question. Most people are atheist therefore most wars must be started by atheists seeing they are in the majority. :)

 

No, it's by people like you who believe in the fairytales that your god is better than the other god that causes the wars. Holy crusades and jihad and all that. The sooner you religious nuts **** off and let the rest of us who don't believe in your crap the better off this world will be.

Wars and warmongers always invoke gods name which everside they are on.

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Some fights have been caused by football. I'm not saying it, but how would you respond to someone who said football causes violence and therefore it shouldn't exist?

Football and the tribalism that surrounds it is responsible for many violent scuffles around football matches and a few deaths, in contrast religion is responsible for many full scale wars incurring many millions of deaths, the two are hardly comparable.

 

Because some people who do terrible things in the name of something good, doesn't mean they are following the genuine message of the religion or group they purport to be part of. If someone has the desire to hurt others or vent their anger, religion, or something like football can be used as a vehicle to do so, even though they are going against what the religion or society actually truly stands for.

There's nothing about football which says you should attack anybody in contrast many religions such as Christianity contain many explicit incitations to murder non-believers. Believers aren't 'going against what the religion ... actually truly stands for' if they murder people in your God's name they are simply focussing on verses of the bible you choose to ignore.

 

Just because you choose to discount Joshua 10:40 that doesn't mean that other true believers don't read it and then sincerely conclude that the 'LORD God of Israel' commands them to commit further genocides in his name. As long as 'holy' books such as yours contain such violent and intolerant passages true believers will continue to commit violent and intolerant acts in religions name.

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I was replying to your comment here banesmabes

 

Now someone else might say that they think wars are caused by greed, hatred, and the desire for power.

 

All I am saying is that rather than say "I think" this is the case, isn't it better to say something like "Wars are caused by disputes over territory and the desire for political power, and these are my reasons for thinkng so."

 

And then go on to give examples of wars caused by governments that dispute territorial boundaries.

 

 

So religion doesn't incite people to commit acts of war and violence? I think that idea is an insult to anyone who has died as a result of their religion, or in the name of someone else's religion. Are you saying that religion had nothing to do with the holocaust? You might be right in saying that there were other factors at play (and indeed other groups, not defined by religion were targeted), but if the Jews weren't Jewish then there wouldn't have been that easy distinction for Nazi's to make when deciding who to mark with the star of David, and who to ultimately annihilate.

 

In addition, you could argue that the NI troubles are to do with territory, yet without religion, there wouldn't be the easy distinction to make between people. There wouldn't be anything there for people to almost immediately know where someone stands on the issue. Without religion, would we have seen the segregation of communities along the lines of those who believe NI is British, and those who believe it is Irish? I would argue that as the religion of the individual isn't determining where they stand then this wouldn't have happened, and as a result it wouldn't have been so easy for paramilitaries to target the other community.

 

You talk about suicide bombers not being Christian (which I guess could extend to them not being Muslim, in the case of the London bombers) - yet they are inspired to commit their acts in the name of their religion. This is a clear fact. Just because their interpretation of that particular religion is not the mainstream interpretation does not mean that the acts weren't caused by their religious beliefs.

 

As I said, I don't think religion is the only cause of war - but it certainly doesn't help matters. Anyone who thinks it has nothing to do with war is frankly burying their heads in the sands.

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I suppose the poll has answered the question. Most people are atheist therefore most wars must be started by atheists seeing they are in the majority. :)

 

The starters of wars hardly tend to follow the trends of the majority. I'd have said that generally, being in the demographic group of 'starts wars' is quite a select position. Besides which, worldwide around 80-85% of people declare themselves religious, putting atheists in a firm minority.

 

Two groups which may be hypothesised to occur more often together than would be expected by chance (considering the prevalence of each group in the worldwide population) are 'fervently religious' and 'starts wars'. Without such a study (It may be possible to gather the data if anyone wanted bring it all together thoroughly), my gut feeling is that religion is a major factor in the self-justification for killing people by militants, even if it is not always associated with the initiation of a war. I suspect that it may however also be a common, though probably not often sole factor in the reasons why wars start.

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The starters of wars hardly tend to follow the trends of the majority. I'd have said that generally, being in the demographic group of 'starts wars' is quite a select position. Besides which, worldwide around 80-85% of people declare themselves religious, putting atheists in a firm minority.

 

Two groups which may be hypothesised to occur more often together than would be expected by chance (considering the prevalence of each group in the worldwide population) are 'fervently religious' and 'starts wars'. Without such a study (It may be possible to gather the data if anyone wanted bring it all together thoroughly), my gut feeling is that religion is a major factor in the self-justification for killing people by militants, even if it is not always associated with the initiation of a war. I suspect that it may however also be a common, though probably not often sole factor in the reasons why wars start.

Crayfish. I am surprised at you, a man of science talking about "gut feeling." I have posted a web site listing all the major conflicts and you need to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find a handful that are fought over religion. When did you last hear of a war where one side said to the other "If you don't worship (insert name of God) I will shoot you?

 

When will you look at the statistics and get your head around the real figures and stop living is this make-believe fantasy world that you have invented for yourselves.

 

The facts are there. Get real will you. Everyone. Fighting over religion brings no financial gain. Wars are are fought over territory, oil, politics, power, wealth, and any-other darn reason you can think of EXCEPT religion, for the simple reason there is nothing to be gained from it.

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