Vance Arnold 'You Better Move On'

[alby 10]

I remember hearing Vance Arnold/Joe Cocker sing You Better Move On at Club 60 in West Bar. I'm sure it was 22 November - day of the Kennedy assassination.

[WhiteFender 12]

Hi Alby,Thanks for reminding me but I know you have the facts wrong. We did play the song there many times but at the news of Kennedy's assasination we were playing at the ARBOURTHORNE HOTEL that night.We had just set the 'gear' up and sound checked,went to the bar for a drink and Alf, the landlord,came up to us and told us the news.I will always remember...the time ...the place...as 'yer' do.!!! Great to hear from you.!!!

[mossdog 10]

Hi WF,

You must have played at St Columbas, Crosspool and at the Fleur at Totley. So I must have seen you a few times. Missed the bus once after a Sat. night in the Fleur and tried to walk home to Fulwood. Not a good idea after too many 'Stones'. I was at school, the year above Joe at Lydgate Lane early/mid 50's. I was in the Raiders who played every other week at St. Columbas. Compared to you, we were awful. If you did get round to writing a book I'd certainly buy a copy, as would several of my old mates from Sheffield who I'll be seeing at Chester races in May. Regards, Mike.

I well remember playing St,Columbas on my wedding night with the Scott William Combo! Phil Crookes who was Joes original lead guitarist had recently joined us(and was my best man) after Dave Hawley left to go with the Lorne Gibson Trio...........Trying to think of Joes Bassplayers? round that time! Bob Everson,and Dave Green I think. Edited March 19, 2009 by mossdog

[WhiteFender 12]

Well remember Phil,( lives not a mile from me now) he was only about sixteen when I joined Joe,He was playing a Red 'Vox' guitar,horrible thing,then he got a red 'Strat' for the City Hall gigs. He was very shy and didn't like looking at the audience, almost turned his back on them.He was very influenced by Les Paul at the time and eventually got a big 'cutaway' Sunburst Gibson if you remember.As I've said before Dave Green was never an Avenger, he joined when Bob and I left.There were only ever 6 Avs: over 4 and a half yrs:Dave Hopper took over from Phil; and Dave Memmot from Steve Mc Kenna.Bob was an orig: (and me).We were the Cavaliers before,with Joe on Drums.

By the way fella, couldn't you have found something a bit more interesting to do on your wedding night than playing at St Columbas??

Edited March 19, 2009 by WhiteFender

[mossdog 10]

Well remember Phil,( lives not a mile from me now) he was only about sixteen when I joined Joe,He was playing a Red 'Vox' guitar,horrible thing,then he got a red 'Strat' for the City Hall gigs. He was very shy and didn't like looking at the audience, almost turned his back on them.He was very influenced by Les Paul at the time and eventually got a big 'cutaway' Sunburst Gibson if you remember.As I've said before Dave Green was never an Avenger, he joined when Bob and I left.There were only ever 6 Avs: over 4 and a half yrs:Dave Hopper took over from Phil; and Dave Memmot from Steve Mc Kenna.Bob was an orig: (and me).We were the Cavaliers before,with Joe on Drums.

By the way fella, couldn't you have found something a bit more interesting to do on your wedding night than playing at St Columbas??

I am sure I could! but the day I got married I had seven quid in the world! the night time gig at Columbas paid Nine quid .........between 4.....gross!!! sorry 5, little Reg Featherstone was in for a fifth share as van driver.After "stoppages" I came out with about £1/12/6.So you see I could not afford to turn the gig down!...."Happy Days" Edited March 20, 2009 by mossdog

[alby 10]

Hi Alby,Thanks for reminding me but I know you have the facts wrong. We did play the song there many times but at the news of Kennedy's assasination we were playing at the ARBOURTHORNE HOTEL that night.We had just set the 'gear' up and sound checked,went to the bar for a drink and Alf, the landlord,came up to us and told us the news.I will always remember...the time ...the place...as 'yer' do.!!! Great to hear from you.!!!

 

 

Thanks for putting me right on that one WhiteFender. I was pleased to buy the CD/booklet of the live recording of the band playing the song at the Esquire Club in 1963.

[mikeG 16]

Thanks for putting me right on that one WhiteFender. I was pleased to buy the CD/booklet of the live recording of the band playing the song at the Esquire Club in 1963.

 

A mate from Sheffield copied that CD to cassette and posted it to me. Great tracks.

 

WhiteFender says there were only 6 Avengers which has me confused.

Had a look at Joe's biography and the photo of the Cavaliers (John Mitchell, Phil Crookes and Bob Everson) with Joe.

Photo of the Avengers has Bob Everson, Stuart Mckenna, Phil Crookes and Richard Ibrahim - so thats 4 Avengers.

However I've read - on here and in the book that in the Avengers

Graham Bower replaced John Mitchell

Dave Memmott replaced Steve Mckenna

Dave Hopper replaced Phil Crookes.

 

So in theory we have 8 possible Avengers:-

Bob Everson, Stuart Mckenna, Richard Ibrahim, Phil Crookes,

John Mitchell, Graham Bower, Dave Memmot, Dave Hopper.

 

Anybody help me out with this one? The book could have got some names wrong.

[WhiteFender 12]

Hi,I can easily understand why you are confused ,and this is why I intend to put the matter right with a book on Joe's early yrs:(obviously I would have to have his permission first).When I first joined Joe we were "The Cavaliers" with Joe singing and playing drums, John Mitchell had just left.Whoever Richard Ibrahim was I have no idea. I think he must have gone to the same school as Joe and Bob Everson. I know J. P Bean mentions him in his book but I never saw or heard of him.The photo of "The Avengers" in the book was taken at the Fleur whilst I was on my honeymoon and Joe asked Mitchell to stand in for me that's why I'm not on it.If you're counting his one appearance then I stand to be corrected.So my friend the only true Avengers were:- Bob,Steve,Phil,Dave Memmott,Dave Hopper and me over a period of 4 yrs:

The other photo in Bean's book where it shows Memmott, Hopper, Green, and Vernon Nash were Joe's next band, ( Big Blues).The "Avengers" were dissolved when Bob and I left in April 64.If you need any more true facts just get in touch.All the best and ....Keep Rockin' man.!!!

Edited March 21, 2009 by WhiteFender

[mossdog 10]

Hi,I can easily understand why you are confused ,and this is why I intend to put the matter right with a book on Joe's early yrs:(obviously I would have to have his permission first).When I first joined Joe we were "The Cavaliers" with Joe singing and playing drums, John Mitchell had just left.Whoever Richard Ibrahim was I have no idea. I think he must have gone to the same school as Joe and Bob Everson. I know J. P Bean mentions him in his book but I never saw or heard of him.The photo of "The Avengers" in the book was taken at the Fleur whilst I was on my honeymoon and Joe asked Mitchell to stand in for me that's why I'm not on it.If you're counting his one appearance then I stand to be corrected.So my friend the only true Avengers were:- Bob,Steve,Phil,Dave Memmott,Dave Hopper and me over a period of 4 yrs:

The other photo in Bean's book where it shows Memmott, Hopper, Green, and Vernon Nash were Joe's next band, ( Big Blues).The "Avengers" were dissolved when Bob and I left in April 64.If you need any more true facts just get in touch.All the best and ....Keep Rockin' man.!!!

Talking of the"Joe Cockers Big Blues" period,we were in the Stonehouse Pub one day when Joe walked in with a letter from an agent ,(Dutch I think) addressed to......................."JOE COCHEN BIG BLUE"

SHEFFIELD......and it actually got to Tasker road where Joe lived!

Edited March 21, 2009 by mossdog

[brooklynex 10]

Athy,the TV show you saw Joe on would have been 'Stars and Garters' and as for the live rag recording, I was there.The Tangerine Ayr band were from the university and were not at all psychedelic.Sophomoric is how I'd describe their music.The Pityful Souls were all native born Jamaican lads from the Burngreave area and were an excellent soul band who were popular in the Sheffield area and also in the far east where they toured US military bases and played big hotels in Singapore and Hong Kong.Delroy was also from Jamaica and put on a very visual show that was popular in the Sheffield area.There's a great book called 'Not Like a Proper Job' which is an account of popular music in Sheffield from the 1950s through 70s.One of the co- authors is John Firminger and I think it is still available in Sheffield.I recommend it if you want to know more about Sheffield bands and singers.

 

I remember the Pitiful Souls, Leroy Walcott, who him and I were in the same class at Burngreave. His brother Joe was in the group too and the guy Delroy was their cousin. (Think his last name was Williams, but not certain.)

[sirglyn 11]

Leroy's brother was Ted,the drummer;Joe Brown was the guitarist,Lloyd Williamson (or Williams) was the vocalist and keyboard player and I think the sax player was Noel Lindsay.

[philrob 10]

Anybody witnessed Vance Arnorld / Joe Cocker perform "You Better Move On" in 1963? I am writing a chapter in my new Dutch book (the successor to my book "Grijsgedraaid") on that song and am trying to trace how the Rolling Stones got that song. I find Cocker/Arnold singing the song in 1963 (on the 2000 release "Vance Arnold and the Avengers 1963 live", the Stones recorded it end 1963. I also find Cocker played support act to the Hollies (recorded the song on their first album) and the Stones in Sheffield. Any connection there?

The song comes from soul singer Arthur Alexander, he also wrote 'Anna' covered by the Beatles,and 'shot of rhythm and blues' covered by Johnny Kidd and the Pirates among others,all 3 songs were standard fare for 'beat groups, in the 60,s