Notification Of Compulsory Enlistment

[mojoworking 10]

Originally posted by DerekH

Here Here!! The anti war demonstrators are the type of people that would sit back and allow the country to be taken over.

In effect they are mostly cowards.

 

Considering the number of times you see people use the expression Hear! Hear! on this forum, it still amazes me how many don't know how to spell it

[Tony 10]

Agreed mojo.

 

'Hear Hear'... an abbreviation of 'Hear him, Hear him', which is an abbreviation of 'Hear him. Hear this eloquant man.'(The last one is paraphrased - I can't remember the full quote).

 

It doesn't mean 'Me too - me over here'.

[DerekH 10]

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

How did you work that out?

 

What makes someone who protests against their government joining an illegal invasion of a sovereign state (in contradiction of all known norms and laws of international behaviour), the same as someone who would do nothing to fight an invasion of their own sovereign state.

 

Where is the link, the corollary, the correlation?

 

I'd ask the nurse to let you have a crayon or something safe; at least then you could make notes.

 

I agree that the attack on a sovereign state has so far been unjustified ..but the way that Saddam had already contavened many un resolutions made it impossible for anyone to believe that he did not have wmd..in his arsenal.

 

He did use WMD against the Kurds and was known to have the capability and the mentality to use these weapons again.

 

Here is a question that you should ponder over.

 

If Saddam were allowed to carry on, The resolutions that were implemented by the UN would have been undermined as nothing but words thus making the UN look like they have no power or influence.

Bearing in mind that this is a united Nation emphasis on united!.that was being ignored shows that Saddam was capable of doing whatever he wanted to.

 

I personally do not think that Saddam was at fault but His sons and cousins were the types that were callouse and manipulative.

 

Since Iraq invaded Kuwait with the subsequent gulf war that followed, Saddam and his forces fired scud missiles indiscriminatley in to Israel, not at strategic targets but the civillian population.

This in its self showed what this man is like,

with no regard to life or the destruction of civilians that realy had nothing to do with the situation at the time.

 

We have had the War....Will it be better? Who knows....The islamics/muslims have their own ideas!

 

They will be taking over the world one day unless some one does something about it.............And if they do....We won't mind because we will all be dead!

[DerekH 10]

 

 

Because we bombed a country back to the Dark Ages and killed more civilians in 12 months than Sadaam had in the previous 7 years. [/b]

What utter Tripe........So far the death toll from the war is...11000 iraqis, 61 Brits.. So you are telling me that Saddam only killed lets say 10 000 Mugabe has done more than that.

[Snook 10]

If we are that bothered about terrorists and human rights and breaking of UN resolutions, why haven't we invaded Israel?

 

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992

1. Resolution 106: "... 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"

2. Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"

3. Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"

4. Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"

5. Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"

6. Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"

7. Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"

8. Resolution 248: "... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"

9. Resolution 250: "... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"

10. Resolution 251: "... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

11. Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"

12. Resolution 256: "... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation""

13. Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"

14. Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"

15. Resolution 265: "... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"

16. Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"

17. Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"

18. Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"

19. Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"

20. Resolution 280: "....'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"

21. Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"

22. Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"

23. Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"

24. Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"

25. Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"

26. Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"

27. Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"

28. Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"

29. Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

30. Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon'

31. Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"

32. Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

33. Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"

34. Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"

35. Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"

36. Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"

37. Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"

38. Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians" 39. Resolution 471: "... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

40. Resolution 476: "... 'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'"

41. Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"

42. Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"

43. Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"

44. Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"

45. Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"

46. Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"

47. Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"

48. Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"

49. Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

50. Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"

51. Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"

52. Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters

53. Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"

54. Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 55. Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians

56. Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention

57. Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"

58. Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians

59. Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians

60. Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount

61. Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations

62. Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians

63. Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return

64. Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians

65. Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

 

The following are the resolutions vetoed by the United States during the period of September, 1972, to May, 1990 to protect Israel from council criticism:

1. ....condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria..."

2. ....affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections..."

3. ...condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians..."

4. ....called for self-determination of Palestinian people..."

5. ....deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the United Nations..."

6. ....affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people..."

7. ....endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people..."

8. ....demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights..."

9. ....condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva convention protocols of civilized nations..."

10. ....condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem..."

11. ....urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon..."

12. ....urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut..."

14. ....urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon..."

15. ....condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace..."

16. ....deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal..."

17. ....condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression...."

18. ....denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories..."

19. ....deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon..."

20. ....deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites..."

21. ....condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane..."

22. ....deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon..."

23. ....called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations..."

24. ....urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices..."

25. ....condemned Israel's... incursion into Lebanon..."

26. ....deplored Israel's... commando raids on Lebanon..."

27. ....deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians..."

28. ....deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians..."

29. ....demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada..."

30. ...called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands..."-

 

 

Source: Paul Findley, Deliberate Deceptions: Facing the Facts About the US/Israeli Relationship (Chicago: Lawrence Hill, 1993).

[DerekH 10]

Originally posted by Snook

If we are that bothered about terrorists and human rights and breaking of UN resolutions, why haven't we invaded Israel?

 

 

I agree withh you 100%...Israel is the only middle east country with nuclear capability that tends to do what it want to!

Why we dont invade is a story for the polititians but from what I can see is that The US and UK look at Israel as a strategic standpoint.

There is no other logic for allowing them the concessions that they are getting!

[DerekH 10]

Another thing here is....Are the UK or any other country entitled to intefere with the way another country is run?

 

This is open to a lot of views but If the UK is not directly affected or threatened by the actions of other countries, Why are our troops in places like the old yugoslavia etc?

[Snook 10]

Originally posted by DerekH

I agree withh you 100%...Israel is the only middle east country with nuclear capability that tends to do what it want to!

Why we dont invade is a story for the polititians but from what I can see is that The US and UK look at Israel as a strategic standpoint.

There is no other logic for allowing them the concessions that they are getting!

 

Maybe it's because they are almost totally funded by America, with $4 billion a year... that helps build an arsenal.

[DerekH 10]

Originally posted by Snook

Maybe it's because they are almost totally funded by America, with $4 billion a year... that helps build an arsenal.

 

Good answer and correct but...What? Has Israel to offer the west?

 

No one or country supports a policy if it does not give a return...

And what would the return from Israel be?

[evildrneil 14]

Not to mention the fact that Israel was set up post WW2 as a homelan for the jews, largely by the US and UK, with no regard for the people living in the are. They can hardly now watch it fail so feel they have to support it pretty much whatever it does.

 

On a side note give all the crap the Jews have suffered over the years being the outsider, you would have thought it would have made them a bit more tollerent of other peopel wouldn't you? Or am I just being niave again?

[Cyclone 10]

non of those resolutions authorise the use of force, one against iraq did, that was the legal basis for the invasion.

Israel supports the west, that's a key difference between them and sadam.

 

Not to mention that the occupied territories were captured when 7 arab nations attacked them with no provocation and lost. Can you say spoils of war? Hell, we own Gibraltar because we kicked the Spanish out at some point.

 

People have the right to protest against a war that they believe to be wrong. It doesn't mean they don't support our boys on the ground, it means they think that there should be none of our boys there. These are clearly two different viewpoints.

 

We can't take a moral stance on behalf of the rest of the world, but when we see international law clearly being broken in a civil war and have the capability why shouldn't we intervene (that's at the yugoslavia comment).

 

The claim about WMD's appears to have been wrong. Whether Tony knew that in advance is debatable, personally I think he probably did. I'd have supported a war without that claim though. Probably not for the same reasons as the politicians supported it, but i'm more interested in the ends than the means. We can't kick out every petty dictactor in the world and impose a capatilist democracy, and imposing a government and social structure is wrong anyway. But some people clearly require removing from power. Unfortunately most change must come from within, or it won't work.

[DerekH 10]

Originally posted by evildrneil

Not to mention the fact that Israel was set up post WW2 as a homelan for the jews, largely by the US and UK, with no regard for the people living in the are. They can hardly now watch it fail so feel they have to support it pretty much whatever it does.

 

On a side note give all the crap the Jews have suffered over the years being the outsider, you would have thought it would have made them a bit more tollerent of other peopel wouldn't you? Or am I just being niave again?

 

Yes they have had the holocaust etc but other nations have suffered the same ethnic cleansing as the jews be it in Somalia or Russia, Cambodia even in uganda...but the other holocausts are not even recorded as being the same as the jews.