Racism. How Do YOU Define it?

[mr contrite]

People's behaviour is chosen, therefore it is open to judgement. They make the choice of how to speak, what political party to support, how to behave when they go to support their team, what car they drive, whether they consider the effect playing their music has on other people etc. The list of choices and behaviours is endless!

 

However, people are born with dark or light skin, red hair, green eyes, perhaps with a disability. Why should we judge on something they have no control over?

 

From a personal point of view, in my job i have had more unsavoury incidents involving non whites than from whites.

[Himupnorth]

If I was to say to a Scot,Irish or Welsh person I do not like you that would not be seen as racist,but, if I said it to a coloured person a lot of people would think so.What is the difference, apart from the colour.

 

 

People are knobheads the world over. So there's nothing wrong with taking a dislike to anyone of whatever creed or colour. As long as the colour isn't the reason for hating a person.

[lazyherbert]

People are knobheads the world over. So there's nothing wrong with taking a dislike to anyone of whatever creed or colour. As long as the colour isn't the reason for hating a person.

Very true.

[Ms Macbeth]

If I was to say to a Scot,Irish or Welsh person I do not like you that would not be seen as racist,but, if I said it to a coloured person a lot of people would think so.What is the difference, apart from the colour.

 

Depends what your reason for not liking them is. I like some black people, and don't particularly like others just the same as I do anyone else. Its about their personality and their behaviour, not the fact that they are black. I don't know many who would be happy to be referred to as 'coloured' though!

 

I have a friend whose grandchildren are fair skinned and blue eyed. Should I like them and not their grandmother who looks quite different because her dad was black?

[lazyherbert]

Depends what your reason for not liking them is. I like some black people, and don't particularly like others just the same as I do anyone else. Its about their personality and their behaviour, not the fact that they are black. I don't know many who would be happy to be referred to as 'coloured' though!

 

I have a friend whose grandchildren are fair skinned and blue eyed. Should I like them and not their grandmother who looks quite different because her dad was black?

 

Oh so is calling them coloured is racist?What do you say.

[newvanandman]

Its not racism,its resentment!!

 

baa baa grey sheep!!?

[Ms Macbeth]

Oh so is calling them coloured is racist?What do you say.

 

No, but its considered inappropriate and outdated. Many black people won't take offence as it tends to be used by older people who aren't aware that the term 'black' is preferred nowadays.

[Halibut]

Why don't you try attacking the definition rather than the person who quoted the person who came up with the definition?

 

There are plenty of other threads for the usual BNP slanging matches.

 

Ok, I'll attack the definition - firstly - 'Racism is a marxist concept' is so far removed from what most people understand and experience in their daily lives as to be effectively meaningless.

Secondly, I think, despite his protestations otherwise Mr Duke is part of one of the most hate-filled organisations ever to grace the planet and responsible for killing hundreds of black American men, women and children and that therefore his claim that hatred is not part of his view is frankly absurd.

Thirdly, since the OP's question was directed at members of SF rather than American white supremacists it's rather a cop-out from angle20.

I'd be much more interested in hearing his personal view.

[Crayfish]

Racism does seem to be an overused term and a little too set-in-stone taboo for my tastes.

 

I'd actually agree with certain points of the David Duke quote, although I'm sure the guy is a total ******.

 

First, I will and do to or befriend anyone regardless of ethnicity. I will however mark ethnic and cultural traits in the same way that I do physical appearance, career direction and level and social style.

 

I do this because it is possible to infer certain things statistically from race. People from a given cultural background almost unavoidably demonstrate some common traits. For instance, if someone is from Saudi Arabia, I can make a reasonable guess that they'll be a muslim. If they are from Spain, I can make a reasonable guess that they're likely to be quite fun-loving, emotional people with a slight streak of temper. So on and so forth.

 

There are a great deal of other traits that vary wildly between any two individuals. However, because background influences characteristics it is reasonable to say that if you can ascertain a person's background you might be able to infer a certain likelihood of 'linked' characteristics.

 

I'd say therefore that while most racism is condemnable (in my view) because it is utterly irrational, there is a more subtle type of judgement that is based on reason and observed statistics, where two traits e.g. ethnicity and probable educational level / social style / world view / religiousity might be linked. Sort of memetic haplotyping I suppose, if anyone understands what I mean by that.

 

What this allows you to do is to say that, using my own views as an example, I am unlikely to get on with anyone from a region that actively enforces Sharia law and has a low standard of education. On a less extreme note, I am unlikely to be everlasting best friends with someone that comes from a long-standing Irish Catholic family or a background that causes them to percieve a low educational level as ideal.

 

The rational and irrational get crammed together... I know that there is such an instinctive reaction from the left wing types (mostly because there is a lot of irrational hatred out there to react to) that I'll probably be flamed just for raising this.

 

In my opinion there is too much of a drive towards saying 'everyone is equal and must be equally respected'. This is actually equally irrational to BNP-style racism (though still preferable). The world population is highly heterogeneous and will fall as a spectrum of superiority and inferiority on any value scale. My own value bases happen to feature 'intelligence'; 'rational ability / non-woolymindedness'; 'kindness / altruism'; 'willingness to progress' and in whole-society terms, technological, social and ethical development. I would therefore make a judgement on the above mentioned Sharia law-following muslim based on 'racial' characteristics (e.g. heritage and culture), because their heritage and culture would carry over into their personality.

 

I'd be interested to hear the view of hard leftwingers like halibut on this - is rational judgement based on racial characteristics wrong?

[Halibut]

 

I'd be interested to hear the view of hard leftwingers like halibut on this - is rational judgement based on racial characteristics wrong?

 

Didn't know I was a hard leftwinger, Crayfish, but I've been labelled worse...

I'm unsure about your use of the term 'racial characteristics' - the examples you give i.e. a Saudi being likely to be Muslim, the jolly Spaniard etc. are not unreasonable suppositions to make within the context of realising that they're not set in stone and that there'll be many who don't fit that mould.

As far as your other example goes, then I don't find it particularly unreasonable either. I myself tend to have certain expectations about the kind of person I'm likely to be on the same wavelength as - and I suspect most people do.

So to answer the question at the end of your post ( and bearing in mind that I'm not altogether happy with the term 'racial characteristics' ), no it's not neccesarily wrong to make rational judgements based on racial characteristics as you use the term.