An Open Question To Mods & Forumers About Trolling

[*Cinderella*]

I don't get this. If I start a fan thread for Tony Blair, you know, the greatest Briton since Boadicea, it's a tragedy he's stepping down, should we have a whip-round?; am I entitled to expect that only fellow fans will contribute?

[Dozy]

I don't get this. If I start a fan thread for Tony Blair, you know, the greatest Briton since Boadicea, it's a tragedy he's stepping down, should we have a whip-round?; am I entitled to expect that only fellow fans will contribute?

 

I think you'd be deeply disappointed if you did expect that!

 

Dozy

[Guest Ant]

From shoeshine (Joint Leader of the Writing Group)

 

What an absurd argument, Ant!

 

We in the Writing Group don't have our noses up in the air, and we certainly aren't a set of luvvies.

 

The Writing Group is a place where genuine, constructive criticism is welcomed.

 

It is a place where all ages and writing abilities are welcomed (excepting those limited intellectually to using textspeak).

 

It is not a mutual admiration society, but an opportunity for all members of SF to advance their skills in using our native language.

 

Surely that's a life-enhancing qualification.

 

We are not pedantic when grammar goes awry. We are intrigued by the variation in ideas, not the slight errors in spelling.

 

Maybe you should dip your toes in the water, Ant. You'd be made to feel welcome.

 

By the way, there is a specific reason why links placed to contributions from Writing Group Members are individually Password-Protected. It not secretive in any way, the contents are innocent. The system is designed to protect the copyright of contributors to their work if it should, at some future time have a monetary value to the author resulting in future publication. If you read the "Sticky" Thread on the top of the Section you will understand why it has been organised in this way.

 

Mr Shoeshine, thank you for your input. You wear your Joint Leader of the Writing Group mantle with obvious pride.

 

I have written the occasional radio play myself, so I've familiarised myself with the writers' group. It's not quite suitable for me, so I've never joined. But that's a subject for a different thread.

 

Your whole post seems to consist of a verbose defence of the group, but I'm confused as to where you think an attack came from.

 

You stress that the group is one where genuine, constructive criticism is welcomed, but I can't see any element of "I can't stand writing, all writers need to get a life, I've never met a writer who doesn't look like the back end of a bus" that could be considered to fall into that category.

 

My argument was that troublesome posters, using Joe's terminology, can be a real irritation when the comments are purely negative and they have no obvious interest in the thread, or in this case, the group. I could just have easily used the Classic Car thread as an example - "I've never had a car, they're pretty lame. Why don't you all just walk? - Duh!" To me, it sits under the trolling umbrella.

 

So where exactly does the "absurd argument" lie?

[Guest Ant]

I don't get this. If I start a fan thread for Tony Blair, you know, the greatest Briton since Boadicea, it's a tragedy he's stepping down, should we have a whip-round?; am I entitled to expect that only fellow fans will contribute?

 

No. Obviously. That's a no-brainer.

 

Tony Blair is considered by many to be a comedic entertainer, but technically he's a politician. I'm referring to specifically the entertainment section.

 

Let's say you're discussing a book. Thread title: "Has Anyone Read The Lord Of The Rings?" The thread is entirely open for discussion from all camps. Posts will vary from "he was a clumsy, overrated racist who writes children’s books for adults" to "he was a peerless, inspired genius who penned the most imaginative books of the twentieth century", and everything in-between.

 

Still with me?

 

Now, let's say you were a Coronation Street fan, and you wanted to discuss Corrie with your online Corrie mates. Thread title: "The Coronation Street Thread - Keep Up With The Street Action Here!" It's full of Corrie fans, discussing their soap. The keep out sign for non Corrie fans is unwritten, but common sense tells you it's there. If the previous twenty-seven posts are all from Corrie fans, all discussing plot points and characters (posts which can be both positive and negative), then a post basically expressing the point that "Corrie is crap", is trolling, although it's borderline trolling.

 

In it's simplest terms, we identify the topic of the thread by it's title and the opening post. Anything outside of that is off-topic.

 

My suggestion, simply, was to clarify the nature of a thread by flagging it as "fans only" for those tempted to post under those circumstances, and to make it easier for the mods to whip off trolling posts when it was obvious they had no liking for the subject in the first place. Basically, if you're not a fan discussing the specific show, it's off-topic.

 

You may disagree with me, but I don't want you not to "get it".

[Bago]

Basically, what you are saying is that, on any thread whereby the contributors to that thread is passionate about the topic in discussion, bystanders with a smart alec one liner comment which does not add any value to the discussion should refrain? As it can come across as obtusive? I don't disagree with you.

 

Actually, this happens a lot on the threads about Politics. Then again, the usual contributors continues anyway.

[*Cinderella*]

It's an interesting and helpful reply, Ant. In many respects I agree with you. But it is difficult to see why you think that the general principle should not apply to political threads too. Let's say you were a Marxist, and you want to engage in a dialectic with your online Communist mates. Thread title: "Marxism - the way forward". The keep out sign for 'New Labour' and other right-wingers is unwritten, but clearly there. Why shouldn't you be able to flag the thread 'Socialists only'?

 

Think I'd better slink off now and start work on my "Post invasion - follow Iraq's march to democracy" thread.

 

A bit off topic I know, but have you heard the one about the post on the Emmerdale fan thread? "The best thing that could happen to this terrible soap would be if a large plane crashed on Beckindale". Removed by a Mod 29th December 1993; the poster was banned for trolling

[steve_m]

The concept of exclusively like-minded individuals in one thread is just as valid.

 

:

 

 

Really ? it would make for a pretty boring forum.

[JoeP]

Really ? it would make for a pretty boring forum.

 

Depends what you mean by boring - if people wnat to discuss something from a 'fan' perspective, it's natural for them to be peeved when soemone comes on to the thread with the sole intention of annoying the people on the thread.

 

If they genuinely wanted to discuss why someone / something / some TV show is a heap of horse pooh then they could open a new thread to that end.

 

Typically, though, the only reason someone does post in an 'oppositional' manner on a fan thread is to wind people up, and stop them enjoying the facilities of teh Forum.

 

Which is why we do tend to keep an eye on such posts and remove them if asked and if they're obviously posted as wind-ups.

[discodown]

No. Obviously. That's a no-brainer.

 

Tony Blair is considered by many to be a comedic entertainer, but technically he's a politician. I'm referring to specifically the entertainment section.

 

Let's say you're discussing a book. Thread title: "Has Anyone Read The Lord Of The Rings?" The thread is entirely open for discussion from all camps. Posts will vary from "he was a clumsy, overrated racist who writes children’s books for adults" to "he was a peerless, inspired genius who penned the most imaginative books of the twentieth century", and everything in-between.

 

Still with me?

 

Now, let's say you were a Coronation Street fan, and you wanted to discuss Corrie with your online Corrie mates. Thread title: "The Coronation Street Thread - Keep Up With The Street Action Here!" It's full of Corrie fans, discussing their soap. The keep out sign for non Corrie fans is unwritten, but common sense tells you it's there. If the previous twenty-seven posts are all from Corrie fans, all discussing plot points and characters (posts which can be both positive and negative), then a post basically expressing the point that "Corrie is crap", is trolling, although it's borderline trolling.

 

In it's simplest terms, we identify the topic of the thread by it's title and the opening post. Anything outside of that is off-topic.

 

My suggestion, simply, was to clarify the nature of a thread by flagging it as "fans only" for those tempted to post under those circumstances, and to make it easier for the mods to whip off trolling posts when it was obvious they had no liking for the subject in the first place. Basically, if you're not a fan discussing the specific show, it's off-topic.

 

You may disagree with me, but I don't want you not to "get it".

I agree with you almost entirely except that you are giving people too much credit. People won't moderate themselves and use common sense in the way you describe. Which is sad but a fact of life.

 

Besides one mans trolling is another mans comedic gem. There are a couple of people on here who can annoy me because they don't always stick to the point and it frustrates me because I know these people are more than capable of holding their own and making valuable points. (anyone want me to name names!?) In the end you just need to step back a little and see what you regard as pointless and frustrating is to them a witty and pithy remark.

 

On the flip there are some people who are thick skinned and ignorant who are incapable of being reasoned with. We call these people "Moderators";)

 

Only joking mods, i love you all!

[JoeP]

I agree with you almost entirely except that you are giving people too much credit. People won't moderate themselves and use common sense in the way you describe. Which is sad but a fact of life.

 

Besides one mans trolling is another mans comedic gem. There are a couple of people on here who can annoy me because they don't always stick to the point and it frustrates me because I know these people are more than capable of holding their own and making valuable points. (anyone want me to name names!?) In the end you just need to step back a little and see what you regard as pointless and frustrating is to them a witty and pithy remark.

 

On the flip there are some people who are thick skinned and ignorant who are incapable of being reasoned with. We call these people "Moderators";)

 

Only joking mods, i love you all!

 

Part of the entrance requirement - thick skinned, implacable....we drew it up after watching 'The Terminator'. "It can't be bargained with! It can't be reasoned with! It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear...."

 

The one man's shining wit is another man's whining... etc. argument is a good one and is quite common on here. However, there are threads where it's just not appropriate - 'thread hijacking' was something we experienced quite a lot of at one point and it still happens.

 

Again, if it's a thread that's of a 'serious' nature, or one on which the quips are cusing annoyance, we'll do something about it.