Could there have been another Hillsborough Disaster last night

[plekhanov 10]

Okay, I wanted to raise this as a point, as I know one of you will bring it up.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6717793.stm

 

So, there have been 25 incidents since 2003 with our fans away from home, and this (apparently) makes us the worst in Europe. Well, I can live with that.

 

When you're talking about in the region of 180,000 fans in total making those trips, 25 is by no means a bad figure. I'm not for a minute suggesting it's acceptable, just pointing out the proportion of fans to incidents.

It is worse than any other team though, suggesting that it is actually a 'bad figure' the worst there is in fact.

 

This whole thing smacks of a blame shifting exercise. As I've said before, yes there were problems within our number, and yes this is inexcusable, but the fact remains that the poor preparations for this event, and the inadequate venue only served to cause more problems.

And you accuse others of blame shifting:rolleyes: Just because UEFA and the Greek authorities screwed up that doesn't mean that Liverpool fans aren't the worst, they obviously behaved far worse than Milan fans on the night anyway.

 

Finally, the assertion that we are the worst fans in Europe, when there have been running battles inside stadiums during this seasons Champions league games, when there has been a Police Officer murdered whilst officiating an Italian League game, when the San Siro was closed last season because of a flare striking the head of a player, when the Olympic stadium in Rome was closed because a referee was bombarded with objects, and when just this weekend a Danish fan got on to the pitch and tried to assault the referee is potentially libellous. Certainly in American eyes.

Actually US libel laws are very lax and it's much harder to sue someone for libel there than it is in the UK.

 

Anyway why are you talking about incidents at domestic games to rebut claims about behaviour at European games?

[Macca 10]

It is worse than any other team though, suggesting that it is actually a 'bad figure' the worst there is in fact.?

 

Really? Can you tell me what the incidents were then? And can you also, for clarity, tell me how many incidents all of the other clubs that have competed in Europe have been involved in? Thought not.

 

 

And you accuse others of blame shifting:rolleyes: Just because UEFA and the Greek authorities screwed up that doesn't mean that Liverpool fans aren't the worst, they obviously behaved far worse than Milan fans on the night anyway.

 

Yes, I do accuse Uefa of blame shifting, because that's what they are doing.

 

Look at my replies, you'll see that I've agreed we were at fault, and that our fans played a part in what happened; I'm not shifting blame, I'm apportioning it.

 

Actually US libel laws are very lax and it's much harder to sue someone for libel there than it is in the UK.

 

It's a good job any legal action would be taken over here then, isn't it.

 

Anyway why are you talking about incidents at domestic games to rebut claims about behaviour at European games?

 

I'm highlighting incidents were the trouble was markedly worse. I could have mentioned the 14 of our fans who were stabbed in Rome a couple of years back, but I didn't. I could have mentioned the two Leeds fans who got killed in Turkey. The list goes on....

[Preacher Man 10]

heres some more incidents far worse than fraud and stealing tickets.

 

On February 2 a police officer was killed in Sicily when fans rioted during a derby match between Catania and Palermo.

 

On November 24, 2006, a French police officer shot dead a Paris-Saint Germain football fan after being turned on by a mob during racist violence that followed the team's defeat by Israeli side Hapoel Tel-Aviv.

 

On Saturday night a referee was attacked on the pitch during an international match between Sweden and Denmark. The game had to be abandoned.

 

On September 15, 2004, Anders Frisk was forced to abandon the Champions League match between AS Roma and Dinamo Kiev after he was felled by a lighter thrown from the stands.

 

On April 4 this year 12 Manchester United fans ended up in hospital after Italian Ultra hooligans ran riot around the Roma v United Champions League quarter final.

[wuduswitch 10]

How any blade can pontificate about problems at football grounds when you have one of the most notorious of all hooligan gangs is beyond me.

 

Like most clubs,unfortunately, there is an element of nutters, but they are NOT the majority

[billyhill 10]

Like most clubs,unfortunately, there is an element of nutters, but they are NOT the majority

 

Totally agree. I get annoyed when people jump on a bandwasgon and use instances like Athens to have a go at Liverpool and the fans.

 

Also I am well aware of the problems caused in all football grounds by the hooligan minority of which the BBC are a well known and long established "crew"

 

If SUFC were an established team in Europe I have no doubt that the same things would be written about them.

 

Liverpool fans are no better or worse than any others. There are idiots who are noticeable because of the high and continued profile of Liverpool in Europe. However, times the number of fans by the number of games and 25 incidents is a very low percentage.

[plekhanov 10]

Liverpool fans are no better or worse than any others.

What complete rubbish, the supporting cultures at clubs throughout Europe are not all the same and it's entirely possible for some to be better or worse than others.

[plekhanov 10]

Like most clubs,unfortunately, there is an element of nutters, but they are NOT the majority

Who said they were the majority? A minority can still make lots of trouble.

[scottishdude 10]

"

From the original thread:

All clubs have a minority of fans that let their respective clubs down somewhat!!

 

Yeah, There's a few on here!!! :hihi:

[Robbie Loving 10]

The reason there is never any bad press/reports regarding Sheff Utd fans in Europe is simple...... They are never there :hihi: :hihi:

 

Where is England young sir?

 

Please refresh my memory.......

[scottf 21]

Liverpool fans are no better or worse than any others..

 

Take your blinkers off for gods sake!!! Of course they are.

[JBee 10]

Take your blinkers off for gods sake!!! Of course they are.

 

Why? Define 'better' or 'worse'. When Man U lost the FA cup final a few weeks ago many of their supporters started to leave the grounds before the final whistle. At least at the Champions League final the majority of Liverpool fans were sporting and stayed to applaud the winners.

 

What some people seem to be forgetting is that these statistics don't take into account the fact that generally a higher number of Liverpool fans make the effort to travel to matches abroad than supporters of many other clubs, and also that Liverpool has played more games in Europe recently that many other British clubs.

 

More fans + more matches = more incidents.

 

But if they broke it down so the incidents were proportional to the number of supporters traveling from each club, and the number of games played by each club, plus taking into account the level of trouble caused (ie, forged tickets being lower on the scale than the deaths or injuries cause by some of the other recent incidents not involving Liverpool fans), then Liverpool would come out much more favorably.

 

It's just finger pointing.

[NEKRO138 10]

What happened in Athens was terrible, but I'd have guessed that the Italin fans or Turkish fans would be rated as worse.

 

When was the last time you saw a 'Welcome to Hell' banner at Anfield? Or a match having to be played in an empty stadium?