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The Stop Smoking Megathread [ including Champix]

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People who complain about the smoking ban need to shut up, seriously.

 

IMO it was the best thing the previous Government ever did.

some would say the only thing they got right but hold on didn't Brussels force it on us.

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You are kidding yourself if you think that such a price differential is down to such things as business rates. It's greed and all about the ability to rip off tourists. There are people in York on minimum wage, where do they drink? Maybe in the Sam Smith's and wetherspoons pubs, where they have to pay the same wage/property/business rates as everyone else.

 

I look forward to your book on the economic realities of modern life and how the taxes on pubs and punters go to pay to bomb 'brown people'.

 

Open your eyes, its to do with what I've mentioned plus more choice for people ie: 500 tv channels, facebook and drinking at home. Add in the lack of young people being welcomed in pubs and you have the reason for our dying pubs. The smoking ban was a very minor reason for the death of local pubs, which is where I started my argument with you.

 

I repeat do Sam Smiths/Wetherspoons pay different tax rates? No they have different business models to the pubcos. Get over it.

This is a very interesting site it gives the view from the other side of the bar-http://samsmiths.info/

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It is pretty simple really. the stats are readily available.Of the age group who are old enough to smoke only 21% actually smoke. If you are old enough to smoke you are old enough to go to the pub. It's all pretty simple really.

 

...

 

No, that's simplistic - which is not the same as simple.

 

If a mere 21% of people who are old enough to smoke do smoke, that does not suggest that 21% of people who go to pubs smoke. You have not established a connection.

 

It could be (it's not though) that only 21% of the population go to pubs and they are all smokers. - If that was the case. 100% of the customers of pubs would be smokers.

 

Your statistics are based on flawed premises.

 

As you, I and others have said, people's habits have changed. Pubs used to be full every night. People went there for a pint and a chat (and some people smoked, too.)

 

Now they go elsewhere.

 

How many times have you heard strident complaints when a pub closure is announced?

 

"They shouldn't be allowed to close our pub! It's a vital part of community life! We can't do without it!" But when you press the complainer, he says: "Of course I'm a regular! - I go there every New Year's Eve without fail for a half of shandy!"

 

I've never heard of a pub which closed because it had too many customers and the landlord was worked off his feet. Quite a few closed because - although they were good pubs - fewer people used them and operating costs increased steadily.

 

Smoking may have had some effect (I know a few people who did reduce their visits to pubs [and some of them were major customers] because they could no longer smoke in the pub,) but - thinking back to when I was looking at running a pub in 1991 - the writing was already on the wall. The breweries were screwing the landlords, business rates were screwing the landlords and people - particularly younger people - were going elsewhere.

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I ... asked myself why a pint in York costs £4 as apposed to £2.40 in Dewsbury and to be honest I'm amazed that you didn't know, it will be due to business taxes and the cost of property is far higher in York because it's a tourist area therefore completely different from Dewsbury.

 

You are kidding yourself if you think that such a price differential is down to such things as business rates. It's greed and all about the ability to rip off tourists...

 

The UK isn't known as 'Rip-Off Britain' and 'Treasure Island' for nothing. :hihi:

 

Prices in tourist areas are often somewhat higher than elsewhere - because the people in those areas rely on tourists for their livelihood.

 

The UK is renowned for ripping-off tourists.

 

I wonder how many repeat tourists places like York get?

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This is a very interesting site it gives the view from the other side of the bar-http://samsmiths.info/

 

Choogling, I'm aware of the bad press that Sam Smiths gets and I'm not trying to use them as a panacea for running pubs. My very first local, the New Broom in Rotherham is a Sam Smiths pub and for years it was a fantastically busy place all week. This was in the 70's and 80's and even up to the millenium. I went to a funeral last week of one of the Men who used to go in there and I'm afraid the pub is now a shadow of what it used to be. Sam Smiths refuse to pay for a music or tv licence and the place had zero atmosphere. But the beer is still cheap. Maybe they could put it up a couple of pence and have a juke box.

 

http://www.deathoftheregular.com

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No, that's simplistic - which is not the same as simple.

 

If a mere 21% of people who are old enough to smoke do smoke, that does not suggest that 21% of people who go to pubs smoke. You have not established a connection.

 

It could be (it's not though) that only 21% of the population go to pubs and they are all smokers. - If that was the case. 100% of the customers of pubs would be smokers.

 

Your statistics are based on flawed premises.

 

As you, I and others have said, people's habits have changed. Pubs used to be full every night. People went there for a pint and a chat (and some people smoked, too.)

 

Now they go elsewhere.

 

How many times have you heard strident complaints when a pub closure is announced?

 

"They shouldn't be allowed to close our pub! It's a vital part of community life! We can't do without it!" But when you press the complainer, he says: "Of course I'm a regular! - I go there every New Year's Eve without fail for a half of shandy!"

 

I've never heard of a pub which closed because it had too many customers and the landlord was worked off his feet. Quite a few closed because - although they were good pubs - fewer people used them and operating costs increased steadily.

 

Smoking may have had some effect (I know a few people who did reduce their visits to pubs [and some of them were major customers] because they could no longer smoke in the pub,) but - thinking back to when I was looking at running a pub in 1991 - the writing was already on the wall. The breweries were screwing the landlords, business rates were screwing the landlords and people - particularly younger people - were going elsewhere.

 

 

Well actual you very nearly have a point. Because only 21% of the population smoked and it was clear that more than 21% of people in pubs were smokers before the smoking ban was introduced. It was clear that something was keeping the 79% of the population who didn't smoke out of pubs. It isn't difficult to work out what that was.

Like I said before. I go to pubs far more often now I can breathe in them. Many of my friends do likewise. We also eat out far more often.

The pubs now cater for all people not just the ones who were prepared to put up with the stink.

No one can argue that pubs are closing. 100 years ago there were 4 times as many in Sheffield as there are today. Pubs have been closing for many reasons. Probably one of the main ones which is rarely touched upon is the demise of brewery owned pub chains. Each brewery would have it's outlet in every area. But now they don't need to compete. So it isn't necessary for Dronfield to have over 2 dozen pubs.

 

Something else that cannot be disputed i the growth in the number of competitors for the pub trade.

 

First are the massive conversions of railway station waiting rooms, factories, banks and cinemas into Wetherspoon type outlets.

Seconldy there are the new build pubs on modern housing estates.

Third are the dozens of wine bars and licenced cafes. Ecclesall Road, and the city centre have hundreds of them.

I doubt that there are any less places to buy a beer than there were 5 years ago. And does it matter a jot if there were. It is supply and demand. There are some smokers who like to imaging that because they no longer go to the pub that the pubs are closing down. They aren't. But even if they were there are plenty for those like me who love to go to them. And they are so much more attractive to us now that they don't stnk like a disused kipper factory.

Edited by Anna Glypta

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Well actual you very nearly have a point. Because only 21% of the population smoked and it was clear that more than 21% of people in pubs were smokers before the smoking ban was introduced. It was clear that something was keeping the 79% of the population who didn't smoke out of pubs. It isn't difficult to work out what that was.

Like I said before. I go to pubs far more often now I can breathe in them. Many of my friends do likewise. We also eat out far more often.

The pubs now cater for all people not just the ones who were prepared to put up with the stink.

No one can argue that pubs are closing. 100 years ago there were 4 times as many in Sheffield as there are today. Pubs have been closing for many reasons. Probably one of the main ones which is rarely touched upon is the demise of brewery owned pub chains. Each brewery would have it's outlet in every area. But now they don't need to compete. So it isn't necessary for Dronfield to have over 2 dozen pubs.

 

Something else that cannot be disputed i the growth in the number of competitors for the pub trade.

 

First are the massive conversions of railway station waiting rooms, factories, banks and cinemas into Wetherspoon type outlets.

Seconldy there are the new build pubs on modern housing estates.

Third are the dozens of wine bars and licenced cafes. Ecclesall Road, and the city centre have hundreds of them.

I doubt that there are any less places to buy a beer than there were 5 years ago. And does it matter a jot if there were. It is supply and demand. There are some smokers who like to imaging that because they no longer go to the pub that the pubs are closing down. They aren't. But even if they were there are plenty for those like me who love to go to them. And they are so much more attractive to us now that they don't stnk like a disused kipper factory.

 

 

A view from afar from someone who moved away from Sheffield many moons ago. Haven't read all 19 pages of postings on this thread but among those I've read this one seems to hit the nail on the head the best. The British pub scene, charming and vibrant as it once was, was unique. Social outlets for consuming alcohol were more varied in N. America, and I suspect continental Europe, even 40 plus years ago. What has happened in Britain is simply a case of moving with the times. Blaming the "no smoking" law is way off mark. No smoking has been the order of the day in other countries for years before Britain brought it into effect. I'm an ex smoker. When I visited Britain, I hated going in pubs because of the stink from cigarette smoke. Now, I look for the nearest pub. I too am nostalgic about the days when neighborhood pubs were social gathering places. But, the Rovers' Return has gone I'm afraid and it had nothing to do with smoking or no smoking.

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Well actual you very nearly have a point. Because only 21% of the population smoked and it was clear that more than 21% of people in pubs were smokers before the smoking ban was introduced. It was clear that something was keeping the 79% of the population who didn't smoke out of pubs. It isn't difficult to work out what that was.

Like I said before. I go to pubs far more often now I can breathe in them. Many of my friends do likewise. We also eat out far more often.

The pubs now cater for all people not just the ones who were prepared to put up with the stink.

No one can argue that pubs are closing. 100 years ago there were 4 times as many in Sheffield as there are today. Pubs have been closing for many reasons. Probably one of the main ones which is rarely touched upon is the demise of brewery owned pub chains. Each brewery would have it's outlet in every area. But now they don't need to compete. So it isn't necessary for Dronfield to have over 2 dozen pubs.

 

Something else that cannot be disputed i the growth in the number of competitors for the pub trade.

 

First are the massive conversions of railway station waiting rooms, factories, banks and cinemas into Wetherspoon type outlets.

Seconldy there are the new build pubs on modern housing estates.

Third are the dozens of wine bars and licenced cafes. Ecclesall Road, and the city centre have hundreds of them.

I doubt that there are any less places to buy a beer than there were 5 years ago. And does it matter a jot if there were. It is supply and demand. There are some smokers who like to imaging that because they no longer go to the pub that the pubs are closing down. They aren't. But even if they were there are plenty for those like me who love to go to them. And they are so much more attractive to us now that they don't stnk like a disused kipper factory.

 

 

 

As a non smoker I did not mind going into a smokey pub, it was part and parcel of the pub scene.

 

But to say, See above - "It is supply and demand. There are some smokers who like to imaging that because they no longer go to the pub that the pubs are closing down. They aren't."

 

Pubs NOT closing down, I imagine you must go no further than your "local". I see many many pubs which are now closed, many which are chinky's and even more that are Indians. The traditional pub as we used to know it has almost died out, give it another 10 years and they will all be gone.

 

Angel.

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As a non smoker I did not mind going into a smokey pub, it was part and parcel of the pub scene.

 

But to say, See above - "It is supply and demand. There are some smokers who like to imaging that because they no longer go to the pub that the pubs are closing down. They aren't."

 

Pubs NOT closing down, I imagine you must go no further than your "local". I see many many pubs which are now closed, many which are chinky's and even more that are Indians. The traditional pub as we used to know it has almost died out, give it another 10 years and they will all be gone.

 

Angel.

 

I've seen it all. Areas of Sheffield where all the houses have gone and the pub shuts. Others where shutters go up and the pub reopens a month later.

 

No one said pubs weren't closing. I said pubs aren't closing because a few die hard smokers are boycotting them. That's Because as many folks who didn't go to the pub because of the smoke do now because it's gone.

At the last count I think there were 7 new bars in West One, and perhaps the same number in Leopold Square. There have been countless new bars opening up all over town in banks, cinemas, old factories and even a swimming pool. I've lost count of the places along West Street, Division Street, Ecclesall Road etc that have opened in the last few years.

During Tramlines I went in several liceced premises that weren't around when the smoking ban came in.

 

The bottom line is there are enough pubs for those who want to use them. It is just that the game is moving on. The spit and sawdust boozer with outside toilets is no longer acceptable. That's why they have disappeared and been replaced by clean modern places that people feel comfortable in.

Edited by Anna Glypta

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I thought many of the pub closures were down to thuggery, drugs and violence. All the pubs on the Manor seemed to have closed long before anyone heard of a smoking ban.

 

I seem to remember The Meadow at Darnall being closed for repeated trouble and that was obviosly the case with these pubs here.....

 

Gower Arms closed

On 31st May the Council’s licensing board revoked the Gower Arms’ license and an appeal has been adjourned until September. Although the pub could be allowed to open during the appeal, the police have asked for it to remain closed because they believe there is risk of a ‘serious disorder incident’.

Strict licensing conditions were imposed on the pub in January this year, including an order to upgrade the CCTV system, ban children, enforce a stringent search policy, employ weekend security staff and

stop people congregating outside.

Sergeant Simon Leake from the Burngreave Safer Neighbourhood policing

team said that these conditions had been breached. A series of incidents were reported at the license review including failures to search people, and drugs recovered from four men in the pub...

 

 

'Den of iniquity' pub closed down

A Sheffield pub branded a "den of iniquity" by police has been closed down after officers were called to the premises 142 times in 12 months.

The Cannon pub in Castle Street had its licence permanently revoked after a hearing at the town hall on Thursday.

 

Chris Brown, liquor licensing sergeant for South Yorkshire Police, said the venue had been a haven for drug users and dealers for "many years".

 

He said: "It brought down that particular area of the city centre."

 

Cannabis smell

 

Mr Brown said there had been 42 recorded crimes at the venue in the past year.

"The Cannon pub has for many years now attracted shoplifters, people who take drugs and drug dealers.

"It smells of cannabis as you walk past - in short it is a den of iniquity."

 

 

A LANDLORD who used to run Sheffield's most notorious pub is being evicted from another bar following police concerns about how it has been managed.

Sonny Singh Bal has been stripped of his lease for The Pomona on Ecclesall Road - just months after he lost his licence for The Cannon on Castle Street in the city centre after it was shut down and branded a "den of iniquity" by police.

 

 

 

 

" If you want to run a pub like this we will come and close you"

Chris Brown, South Yorkshire Police

Edited by vinyl

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I see many many pubs which are now closed, many which are chinky's and even more that are Indians.

 

Oh dear................

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