Too fat... being refused health care?

[Cyclone 10]

Fair enough, I've learnt something about sugar today.

Does anyone get obese just on sugar though? the people you see on the stupid reality tv style programs eat an incredible amount of crap, not just have too many sugars in their tea or eat too much chocolate.

[Cyclone 10]

And???

 

I stand by my statement that you are making ill considered and over simplistic judgements.

Don't you ever think WHY there is an obesity problem now? Have people suddenly got lazy and ill disciplined for no apparent reason?

 

Food has become cheaper and at the same time less healthy in general.

Life has become easier, 40 years ago lots of people didn't have a car, now it's unusual.

Put the two together and people who in the past would have been unable to indulge that level of laziness (ie would have gone hungry or were forced to burn more calories) now are able to indulge it.

 

So people are no more lazy than they have always been, it's just easier to express your laziness these days.

[Guest Mod_Man]

I read this a few years ago, it goes on about how we're trapped from birth when it comes to sugar. It doesn't answer the question is sugar addictive but it does give the opinion that we're all pretty screwed when it comes to sugar.

[Guest Mod_Man]

And???

Have people suddenly got lazy and ill disciplined for no apparent reason?

 

People have got lazy full stop, none of us do the amount of work we used to, it's just some of us have not changed our diets accordingly. Some people do very little exercise, look how much regular exercise a car owner who works in an office would do, then look at whether or not they have changed their calorie intake accordingly.

[Becky B 31]

It's not as simple as being overweight causing you to be refused medical treatment. If someone has a condition that is caused by their being overweight (or smoking) and which could be improved by their losing weight (or stopping smoking) they might be refused surgery to rectify this condition until they have lost weight. The chances of certain conditions reoccurring after surgery unless some effort is made to reduce the underlying causes is very high, so sometimes there is simply no point carrying out the operation.

 

An example is angioplasty or venous grafts in the limbs of smokers. This is often carried out on the proviso that the individual stops smoking. They then have the surgery. If they go back on their word and start smoking heavily again, the chances are the graft or original artery clog back up again. The NHS won't carry out an additional operation, which I think is perfectly reasonable (although perhaps not cost effective as they will then end up amputating the leg instead).

 

I saw a chap on the news once who was outraged that his surgeon "wouldn't treat him" for his condition unless he stopped smoking. What he failed to realise that he was being treated, but as that involved doing something for himself he wasn't happy . The first line of treatment for intermittent claudication, which is what he had, is modification of risk factors and medical management, i.e. smoking cessation, cholesterol monitoring etc.

It's a similar thing with being overweight, for example a knee replacement will last much longer if it's not under extra strain from extra weight

[manxcat 10]

People have got lazy full stop, none of us do the amount of work we used to, it's just some of us have not changed our diets accordingly. Some people do very little exercise, look how much regular exercise a car owner who works in an office would do, then look at whether or not they have changed their calorie intake accordingly.

 

You are still not getting the point are you? So we're all lazy, not just fat people now?

 

It's downright obvious that nowadays there is an abundance of food (especially of the junk variety) and less physical activity due to cars etc. But this change has happened over a relatively short time scale and we are only now starting to feel the problems it has created. So we need to proactive and positive to make people healthier and more active. Banging on that "fat people must be lazy" and "they only have themselves to blame" is not constructive or accurate and stigmatises overweight people.

[nick2 10]

So we need to proactive and positive to make people healthier and more active.

 

BURN THE CARS !

[Guest]

...But this change has happened over a relatively short time scale and we are only now starting to feel the problems it has created. ...

Yes, the obesity epidemic has happened over a relatively short time scale, which indicates that the problem in the majority of cases is due to environmental factors. In the overwhelming number of cases - especially children - these factors are relative inactivity and the availability of calorie-rich food in amounts much larger than the body needs for nutrition.

...Banging on that "fat people must be lazy" and "they only have themselves to blame" is not constructive or accurate and stigmatises overweight people.

In some cases, obesity can be ascribed to a medical issue. In others, it has a psychological component (compulsive over-eating, for example). But, the fact remains that the issues of inactivty and over-eating are major factors in obesity. I agree, overweight people are stigmatised in society - it's perhaps the last 'acceptable' prejudice - but in many cases obesity is self-inflicted.

[Guest Mod_Man]

You are still not getting the point are you? So we're all lazy, not just fat people now?

 

It's downright obvious that nowadays there is an abundance of food (especially of the junk variety) and less physical activity due to cars etc. But this change has happened over a relatively short time scale and we are only now starting to feel the problems it has created. So we need to proactive and positive to make people healthier and more active. Banging on that "fat people must be lazy" and "they only have themselves to blame" is not constructive or accurate and stigmatises overweight people.

 

I agree with you that we should help them but they need to help themselves first. When I say help themselves I don't mean help themselves to the buffet table. Why should I offer sympathy and support to people who's knees can't support their own body weight?

[Preacher Man 10]

okay then. i'll cede that but sugar dependency if real and shouldn't be dismissed. It does have real effects and consequences on people.

 

Wilf

 

where is the proof it has the same affect on people? the study was about rats. besides wiki is hardly a trusted source.

[BrainThrust 10]

where is the proof it has the same affect on people? the study was about rats. besides wiki is hardly a trusted source.

 

did you read the article and where it cited its sources? or are you just arguing for the sake of it now?

 

Wilf

[Guest]

...Why should I offer sympathy and support to people who's knees can't support their own body weight?

That the condition might be self-inflicted shouldn't preclude offering support (and sympathy, if you're that way inclined). As noted previously, there can be psychological issues surrounding weight gain, which can make the situation more complicated than simply gluttony and sloth. Even if it was a matter of gluttony and sloth, surely you'd feel a little sympathy if their predicament necessitated hospital treatment? Condoning the behaviour that got them there in the first place is a different matter.

 

Lifestyle factors can lead to many different health issues. You might even include the injuries sustained when the otherwise fit and healthy go doing daft things with parachutes, surfboards or whatever. That these injuries are self-inflicted shouldn't prevent others offering support and feeling sympathy for their predicament.