plekhanov   10 #685 Posted August 10, 2007 Are we heading for a situation where there will be a new cold war between democratic western countries with a healthy respect for civil rights (like Britain) and Islamic states which follow a hardline Muslim rule and restrict freedoms in Islam's name? Most likely not for one thing muslim nations are far far weaker than the communist block was, that doesn't mean that Islam isn't already being used as an exaggerated bogeyman for political purposes in the way communism was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
plekhanov   10 #686 Posted August 10, 2007 DOn't forget that there are political movements that attempt to harness Islam to their own devices. The Muslim Brotherhood, founded in the late 1920s is one of these, and has as it's aim the re-establishment of a Caliphate - a unified Muslim State. The Muslim Brotherhood isn't some kind of secular movement that cynically uses religious rhetoric in the way that say the business wing of the Republican Party in the US does or Saddam did, it's directly inspired by Islam and it's raison d'etre is to create a utopia run on Islamic principles. It is a religious movement which encompasses many things including politics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SimpyTimpy   10 #687 Posted August 11, 2007 It will be over in 2008 when there is a change of leadership in the U.S. Troops will be home from Iraq. Preasure can be put on Pakistan to catch Osama and crew, then diplomacy will calm things down and start building bridges rather than bombing them. We will invest in renewable energy sources and stop throwing trillions in to the hands of rouge states and Saudi Arabia who fund terrorism. Basically we will return to normality and turn away from the politics of fear.  Mind you looks like we will have the cold war with Russia back again.  But Communism and Islam? Different things all together.  That's pretty optimistic - there was huge problems between the Eastern World and Western World years before George W. Bush - and there will be for a long time to come. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tom3t0 Â Â 10 #688 Posted August 11, 2007 communism only failed because the people whom it was supposed to benefit didn't bother to make sure it benefitted them. Â islam is very different to communism Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
plekhanov   10 #689 Posted August 11, 2007 communism only failed because the people whom it was supposed to benefit didn't bother to make sure it benefitted them. islam is very different to communism Communism failed because it's an unworkable system based upon fundamentally flawed assumptions about human nature. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tom3t0 Â Â 10 #690 Posted August 11, 2007 Communism failed because it's an unworkable system based upon fundamentally flawed assumptions about human nature. Â If we all were actually equal, i reckon it would work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Fareast   10 #691 Posted August 11, 2007 Communism [ or Marxism ] was always alleged by its adherents to be based on scientific, provable, historical principles ; but was it ? Only if we accept that Marx was completely correct in all his works would this be true. It's even odds-on that many ' communists ' had never fully read, even less understood, Marxism. In this way, I think Communism for many of its followers was a quasi-religious movement.  If we accept that it was [ or is ] a mixture of religion and science, then there do seem to be many similarities between it and Islam.  Both have their unassailable, not-to-be-challenged prophets ; both have their fanatics willing to die for their cause ; both have a strong distaste for what we can loosely say is the ' Western way of life ' ; both are tightly-knit and well-organised ; both have regular ' meetings '[ prayers ] to inform and ' whip up ' their followers ; both have their ' soft ' friendly side and their hard-line provocative side ; both have dished out severe punishments to followers who desert the cause...........I guess there are other similarities, too, that people can think of.  Perhaps the most significant similarity is that in communist countries, the communist parties were not merely political parties as we know them in the West but were part and parcel of everyday life. In a similar fashion, Islam plays a deep and important part in the life of its believers, much more so than modern Christianity does in the West. For this reason alone, many people in the West, I think, regard Islam as a serious threat inasmuch as it is quite difficult to untangle the fanatics from the moderates in Islamic societies because of the part that religion plays in all their lives. Indeed it must be difficult for many Muslim, living in a Christian country, to decide where their loyalties belong. In exactly the same way, many communists were confused about their loyalties too---- Moscow or the capitalist country in which they lived ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
carmencarter   10 #692 Posted August 11, 2007 If we all were actually equal, i reckon it would work.  Can we be equal though? Some people want to have more or to lead and won't be content with " the same as everybody else". Plus some are working harder than others and it's only fair that they should expect more- power, recognition, money.  I like the idea of Communism on paper but it wouldn't work in real life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
BorderReiver   10 #693 Posted August 11, 2007 Are we heading for a situation where there will be a new cold war between democratic western countries with a healthy respect for civil rights (like Britain) and Islamic states which follow a hardline Muslim rule and restrict freedoms in Islam's name?  When Turkey is admitted into the "European" Socialist Union, by the lunatics in Brussels, and millions of Muslims flood into Europe, particularly Britain, it will signal the end of Europe as we know it.  There will be no necessity for "a cold war" when they, aided and abetted by the multiculturalist Left, take over from within Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #694 Posted August 11, 2007 When Turkey is admitted into the "European" Socialist Union, by the lunatics in Brussels, and millions of Muslims flood into Europe, particularly Britain, it will signal the end of Europe as we know it.  There will be no necessity for "a cold war" when they, aided and abetted by the multiculturalist Left, take over from within  more paranoid dribblings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
BorderReiver   10 #695 Posted August 11, 2007 If we all were actually equal, i reckon it would work.  How many people in the past have deceived themselves into believing that we could all be equal? This totally contradicts human nature, some one will always want more power or more wealth, a bigger house, a better car.  Hasn't their been enough attempts in the past to set up a communist state only to prove that it will never work - read Animal Farm.  People with political dreams and ideals should learn to separate fantasy from reality, as a prime example, look at the mess the liberal/Left are making of society today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
BorderReiver   10 #696 Posted August 11, 2007 more paranoid dribblings  Ok, bury your head in the sand, but prepare to be shafted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...