The Islam & Muslims discussion megathread

[Cyclone 10]

Originally posted by Mo

I think the thing here scoop is that you taking photos of your child at the baths is not a problem but you could be taking photos of other peoples children without their permission.

 

I must admit I get the creeps when I sit on the seats in the little area at Ponds Forge which is meant to be a sort of viewing gallery and look around me. There are some very shady looking folks lurking about there. Why do they want to come in from the outside and sit watching total strangers ina leisure pool?

 

Aren't you jumping to conclusions somewhat? They are probably sat there wondering why you are in a public swimming pool gallery watching total strangers... Oh you're not you say, how do you know that they are?

 

The photographing rule is idiocy. PC taken to extremes.

 

It's like schools banning photo's from school plays. What a brilliant way to stop parents capturing the memories of their children growing up!

[mojoworking 10]

Originally posted by Cyclone

The photographing rule is idiocy. PC taken to extremes.

 

It's like schools banning photo's from school plays. What a brilliant way to stop parents capturing the memories of their children growing up!

 

It gets worse. A law is about to be passed in some Australian states prohibiting people from taking photographs on the beach! Similar reasons to the swimming pool incident were given: ie a few nonces & purves have been caught snapping kids and women in bikinis

[Cyclone 10]

whilst trying not to seem insensitive.

 

If someone wears a bikini in public, or takes there children out in public then they can have no 'reasonable expectation' of privacy.

 

Thus they must be expecting the public to see them. It would also be unreasonable to assume that they will not be photographed or video'd.

 

In my opinion the loss of freedom to photograph family and friends is not worth the protection offered from people taking illicit photographs. Afterall, it probably won't stop them, they will just be more sneaky, and it certainly won't stop them looking anyway. So it's a loss of freedom which basically brings no benefits.

[scoop 10]

Originally posted by Mo

I think the thing here scoop is that you taking photos of your child at the baths is not a problem but you could be taking photos of other peoples children without their permission.

 

The occasion on which I was stopped from photographing my son was mid week at about 10am. My son, my partner and myself were literally the only people in the pool, there was no one else to take photographs of permission or not!

[Fareast 10]

At first sight, there would seem to be very little in common with the old Communist power bloc and Marxism, and the World of Islam.

 

However, to the 'Western' observer, in practice, there do seem to be some similarities.

 

In the Communist world there were several groups of people. There were the professional communists [the'hard-liners'] who were absolutely disciplined and would carry out any order given, in the U.S.S.R.or even abroad, even assassination-----to wit,Trotsky.

 

Then there were the more typical party members who might have joined the party for idealistic reasons or for cynical ones e.g. to further their career.These people were in the majority as far as party membership was concerned and were mostly innocent, gentle or only fairly mildly corrupt.

 

Then, there 'the dupes' or 'the Infantile Left' as Lenin dubbed them. These were usually foreign to the Soviet Union but had 'fallen in love' with the whole concept.Famous people like G.B.Shaw visited the Soviet Union and were easily charmed by a smiling 'Uncle Joe' and pronounced everything, more or less, beyond reproach.The lesser fish joined Popular Fronts [organised and funded by the Soviet Union] and did all, apart from actually getting their hands dirty, to support the Communist cause, in various ways.

 

Is there a parallel with the World of Islam today? Well, they certainly have their small group of fanatics.Like the Communists they would, apparently like to convert the rest of us to their way of life.They have their non-Islamic sympathisers.They have their 'charismatic' leaders as per Lenin and Stalin who can apparently do no wrong and are the very font of all wisdom-----and, not least of all, they see the Western Democracies as decadent, out-of-date and a barrier to their version of a 'Brave New World'.They also have their non-Islamic fellow-travellers.

 

Any more similarities?

[El-Mariachi 10]

At first sight, there would seem to be very little in common with the old Communist power bloc and Marxism, and the World of Islam.

 

However, to the 'Western' observer, in practice, there do seem to be some similarities.

 

In the Communist world there were several groups of people. There were the professional communists [the'hard-liners'] who were absolutely disciplined and would carry out any order given, in the U.S.S.R.or even abroad, even assassination-----to wit,Trotsky.

 

Then there were the more typical party members who might have joined the party for idealistic reasons or for cynical ones e.g. to further their career.These people were in the majority as far as party membership was concerned and were mostly innocent, gentle or only fairly mildly corrupt.

 

Then, there 'the dupes' or 'the Infantile Left' as Lenin dubbed them. These were usually foreign to the Soviet Union but had 'fallen in love' with the whole concept.Famous people like G.B.Shaw visited the Soviet Union and were easily charmed by a smiling 'Uncle Joe' and pronounced everything, more or less, beyond reproach.The lesser fish joined Popular Fronts [organised and funded by the Soviet Union] and did all, apart from actually getting their hands dirty, to support the Communist cause, in various ways.

 

Is there a parallel with the World of Islam today? Well, they certainly have their small group of fanatics.Like the Communists they would, apparently like to convert the rest of us to their way of life.They have their non-Islamic sympathisers.They have their 'charismatic' leaders as per Lenin and Stalin who can apparently do no wrong and are the very font of all wisdom-----and, not least of all, they see the Western Democracies as decadent, out-of-date and a barrier to their version of a 'Brave New World'.They also have their non-Islamic fellow-travellers.

 

Any more similarities?

 

Cant similar commonalities be found with many an ideology with global aspirations? So what's your point?

[slimsid2000 10]

I think the next big split will be between the democratic west and the Islamic fundamentalist countries. There could be a new cold war.

[4U2NV 10]

I think the next big split will be between the democratic west and the Islamic fundamentalist countries. There could be a new cold war.

 

watched a programme a couple of days ago about 'fundamentalism' it actually started in the the bible belt in the west Sid, they then changed to evangelical.

[LordChaverly 10]

Indeed there are, dear Fareast.

 

During the Messianic phase of Bolshevism (immediately prior to and for decade or so after the 1917 revolution in Russia) it was said of the Bolsheviks that their belief in the cause of revolution gave them the moral right to commit any crime (and commit crimes they did, on a vast scale) - which is another version of the maxim that the end justifies the means. This is one parallel with the Islamic fanatics, but there may be others.

 

There are though differences. The Bolshevik legitimised itself as an ideology of modernity, whereas the ideology of current crop of islamic fanatics seems to be based on the rejection of modernity (except in relation to the harnessing of modern technologies in pursuit of their ends).

[Fareast 10]

El Mariachi,

 

Well, just for the moment I can't think of another 'world ideology' that has more similarities to Communism and Islam than the similarities that they have [or had] to each other.

 

Perhaps you can help us out by suggesting some ?

[El-Mariachi 10]

Indeed there are, dear Fareast.

 

moral right to commit any crime (and commit crimes they did, on a vast scale) - which is another version of the maxim that the end justifies the means.

 

Haven't we seen something similar in American actions during the course of the War on Terror (or the Long War)

 

 

There are though differences. The Bolshevik legitimised itself as an ideology of modernity, whereas the ideology of current crop of islamic fanatics seems to be based on the rejection of modernity (except in relation to the harnessing of modern technologies in pursuit of their ends).

 

Is this actually true, or another myth thats somehow become a supposed fact. They appear to have a problem with secularism, but secularism is hardly a product of modernity now is it ?

[El-Mariachi 10]

El Mariachi,

 

Well, just for the moment I can't think of another 'world ideology' that has more similarities to Communism and Islam than the similarities that they have [or had] to each other.

 

Perhaps you can help us out by suggesting some ?

 

Cant similar categories of people or groups be found in Capitalism ? or any form of Nationalism (beit Arab/Indian/Russian) ?