An Arabic lady talks sense about the conflict between East & West

[peterdo]

He said that he was not prepared to rebuke her because she was a heratic.

Could you answer her question? How many Jewish,Cristian,Buddist suicide bombers have you heard of?

[Bago]

Could you be a little more precise about what "this" is, please?

What do you mean what "this" is?? I would appreciate it, if you quote me the part which you are talking about.

 

And, by the way, the "priest" does NOT say "he is not prepared to rebuke her since she is not even talking sense" What he actually said was:

 

"Are you a heretic? .... If you are a heretic there is no point in rebuking you .. since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet and the Koran ..."

 

So he's not prepared to rebuke her simply because she's a heretic! Which implies that she is not worth bothering about. Which is precisely what she's "going on about" - the fact that some Muslims are NOT prepared to recognise anybody's else right to believe in something other than Islam.

 

Dozy

Ok, let's put it this way. If I was that priest (?), I too would not talk to her because she is not even remotely on the same wavelength that I am thinking. Why would I spend hours trying to make her see something that she will never be able to see or to acknowledge anyway? She hardly sound empathetic or understanding of the Islam religion.

 

I bolded this part, but WOAH... what do YOU mean by some Muslims are not prepared to recognise anybody else's right to believe in something? Who have you spoken to? If anything, THIS woman is NOT acknowledging the Islamic belief. Cos she is ranting and ranting. If you told me that I am not a woman, and that you hate many things about women, etc etc etc. Giving me an awful lot of negative vibes, do you think that I will want to talk to you? Sorry, I wouldn't. I'd be mad to try and soothe and rationalise with you when you already have given me the impression that you don't believe that I am a woman. That's just an analogy, but it's a simple and good one. Same with this lady, why would any Muslim believer want to rationalise with her??

 

I merely said in this thread that I think this lady is talking crap. It's my opinion, and I am entitled to it. I should not bare ALL responsibility to 9/11, 7/7, and all the other terrorists attacks. Poppins was ready to jump on my case and assume that I am a Muslim because I took a certain view to this woman's video speech. It is merely just that, my opinion on her speech! However, I am not a Muslim for the record. I can take a decision and express an opinion, surely? Since we are supposedly living in democratic countries (UK and US), which enables us to do this.

 

Unless I am supposed to keep my gob shut by social pressure.

[Bago]

He said that he was not prepared to rebuke her because she was a heratic.

Could you answer her question? How many Jewish,Cristian,Buddist suicide bombers have you heard of?

I have an idea as to how to answer that question, but I won't. I would like to know the answer to my question also.

 

Why is a group of religious believers now being marginalised on a global basis because of a few individual terrorist?

[purdyamos]

Bago, take your blinkers off, wake up, smell the coffee and STOP SUPPORTING FASCHISM. Because that is what you are doing. The "priest" is not some easy going voice of reason, he is an ISLAMIST. The level of ignorance in your posts is spine-chilling. I really can't quite believe it. There are MILLIONS of people living under Islamic theocracy who agree with Wafa Sultan, but have no voice and no choiice, and are betrayed by people who think, as you do, that every person born into a dictatorship have chosen to be there and are all happy to be silenced and oppressed. It is YOU who are ignorant of the different currents going on in Islam. It is YOU who wish to gag millions from their freedom of speech. For you to demand your right to express your opinion and then DEFEND Islamofascists is sheer hypcrisy.

 

Try educating yourself in the basics of The Enlightenment. Also, find out about the jewish holocaust, because your assessment of it is hair-raising. And deeply offensive.

[purdyamos]

I have an idea as to how to answer that question, but I won't. I would like to know the answer to my question also.

 

Why is a group of religious believers now being marginalised on a global basis because of a few individual terrorist?

 

Because the religion is infested with a voracious tumour, has been for years, and it's getting worse. It is not about a 'few individual terrorists', it is about a mass movement of reactionary medievalists who deny the holocaust and want to turn back every scrap of social progression that has been fought for.

 

It's especially shocking because elsewhere you present yourself as a feminist but when it comes to Islam you want to prevent women from having exactly the freedoms you take for granted for yourself.

 

And the more that misguided 'liberals' are in denial and make excuses for them, the easier it is for their warped campaign to become culturally normalised.

[Bago]

Purdy, I don't wish to make this personal, but this is ridiculous.

 

1) I understand that you are a political person, and I am not.

2) I wish you will stop labelling me as X, or as Y, that is infringing on MY human rights! FFS. Just because you do it, does not mean that I accept it.

3) For someone that say that she is great at English, you really do know how to wind people up by using "YOU YOU YOU" to get your points across and making it personal. Bugger off.

4) Hey, I have NEVER claimed that I am a feminist. I laughed at people calling me a feminist, for whatever reasons that are going on in their minds, on the SF. If truth be told, many people like myself who were born in a different time, and generation will question what feminism is all about. I recall responding a thread just about that in the past. This was shot down very quickly.

 

I will NOT be responsible for actions taken by others with regards to 9/11, 7/7, and whatever societal problems you throw at me. Dont you even dare go down that road. I know what you can be like. What I do see now, right here, right now is my perception of how I see the world. I have told you this once, and I will tell you again. People like me, or rather, people born in this world have no understanding of what life is like in the past. I do not see a problem with questioning what I see before me and cross-references it with information and materials from ALL over the world. Not just an English-written adaptation's perspective. Many will be fed by those around them of what is what. What I truly understand is that, there seems to be a global brainwashing programme which is even more scary than I think it is. Which is Islamaphobia.

 

What I am understanding now is the correlation between Zionism, Antisemitism, and Islamaphobia.

 

Even if I question something, does not mean I am in supportive of whatever you seem to throw at me. I'm sorry if that is what you think, but I can be who I want to be, believe what I want to, and question what I want to. This social pressure which you seem to exert on others is really too much. I'm sorry to say this rudely but, you can sod off if you think otherwise.

[Dozy]

What do you mean what "this" is?? I would appreciate it, if you quote me the part which you are talking about.

 

 

Ok, let's put it this way. If I was that priest (?), I too would not talk to her because she is not even remotely on the same wavelength that I am thinking. Why would I spend hours trying to make her see something that she will never be able to see or to acknowledge anyway? She hardly sound empathetic or understanding of the Islam religion.

 

I bolded this part, but WOAH... what do YOU mean by some Muslims are not prepared to recognise anybody else's right to believe in something? Who have you spoken to? If anything, THIS woman is NOT acknowledging the Islamic belief. Cos she is ranting and ranting. If you told me that I am not a woman, and that you hate many things about women, etc etc etc. Giving me an awful lot of negative vibes, do you think that I will want to talk to you? Sorry, I wouldn't. I'd be mad to try and soothe and rationalise with you when you already have given me the impression that you don't believe that I am a woman. That's just an analogy, but it's a simple and good one. Same with this lady, why would any Muslim believer want to rationalise with her??

 

I merely said in this thread that I think this lady is talking crap. It's my opinion, and I am entitled to it. I should not bare ALL responsibility to 9/11, 7/7, and all the other terrorists attacks. Poppins was ready to jump on my case and assume that I am a Muslim because I took a certain view to this woman's video speech. It is merely just that, my opinion on her speech! However, I am not a Muslim for the record. I can take a decision and express an opinion, surely? Since we are supposedly living in democratic countries (UK and US), which enables us to do this.

 

Unless I am supposed to keep my gob shut by social pressure.

 

Even by your standards, this response is illogical and incoherent drivel. My own fault, I should have known better than to try and have a sensible discussion with you.

 

Dozy

[Bago]

Because the religion is infested with a voracious tumour, has been for years, and it's getting worse. It is not about a 'few individual terrorists', it is about a mass movement of reactionary medievalists who deny the holocaust and want to turn back every scrap of social progression that has been fought for.

 

It's especially shocking because elsewhere you present yourself as a feminist but when it comes to Islam you want to prevent women from having exactly the freedoms you take for granted for yourself.

 

And the more that misguided 'liberals' are in denial and make excuses for them, the easier it is for their warped campaign to become culturally normalised.

Go and read which countries have Sharia Laws. Go and understand how many millions of people are Muslims. Go and understand how life is in different areas of the world for different Muslims. Stones? Do you see stones being thrown at you in the UK by British Muslims? Do you not insult the religious believers in this country? Are you also going to group these people together with those found in Iran or in areas of Afghan too ?

 

Social progression? People should understand how religion played a role from day one since basic civilisation, and within "Empires". Please do read about Zionism, and Anti-semitism too.

[Bago]

Even by your standards, this response is illogical and incoherent drivel. My own fault, I should have known better than to try and have a sensible discussion with you.

 

Dozy

Yes, do blame me for your reaction to my response! Please do! Label me too while you are at it. Please do.

 

By my standard, I am aware of why I am saying what I want to say. By your standard, you seemed to not want to acknowledge what I said. i.e. my opinions and my view.

 

A "I accept that is what you are saying, BUT... what I am saying IS..." does not kill. I really do not understand what you meant by "this". I thought about it a lot, and wonder whether what you meant, is the part which I thought that Poppins (and many others will be too), as reactionary and are presumptious in their thinking.

[plekhanov]

First of all I’d just like to preface my remarks by pointing out that I’m a committed secularist with a profound dislike of and opposition to all forms of theism including Islam.

 

The pro-seuclarism/anti-Islam speaker is wrong on a number of points most of which involve a disproportionate focus on the wrong doing of Muslims.

 

She claims Muslims ‘started the war’ but the fact is that the current conflict with it’s religious overtones in many ways developed from the failure of secular Arab Nationalism to throw western imperialists out of the middle east, with people falling back to the next world when they were so decisively defeated in this one.

 

She is of course right to proclaim the wonders of secularism but the fact is that the struggle against Islamic theocrats is just one front in the ‘war’ against primitive superstition, conservative Christian theocrats in the US are currently in all out assault against the secular US state, Hindu nationalists in India are doing all they can do demonstrate that you don’t have to be the victim of an Abrahamic ideology to be a regressive, theocratic nutter, Catholic theocrats in Nicaragua recently passed a law banning abortion even when continuing the pregnancy will kill both the mother and the foetus….

 

The Islamic theocrats are by far the highest profile opponents to secularism and democracy at the moment but in her absolute focus on Islam Wafa Sultan lets off other faiths far to easily and is fatally ignoring a number of similarly dangerous threats to secular democracy.

 

As for her claim that ‘not a single Jew protested by killing people’ that is simply not true numerous individual Zionist jews such as Baruch Goldstein, Yigal Amir and many murderous ‘settlers’ have killed people for political reasons. Far worse than that though the Israeli state policy of ruling through apartheid in, coupled with ethnic cleansing of the occupied territories have led to the murder of thousand of Palestinians this decade alone.