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School Children's Finger Prints Taken Without Consent!

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Not necessarily. If there was a rape in my area and DNA evidence was left, I'd like to be automatically eliminated rather than having the indignity of the police coming to my house or place of business to take me away to eliminate me from their enquiries just because I had the same build and looks of the alleged attacker.

 

Yet again people start spouting on about "civil liberties" when:

 

a) This technlogy doesn't affect them (they probably don't even have kids).

 

b) Haven't seen the system in action and seen it working.

 

But what if the you had the same build and looks of an alleged attacker AND there was a fingerprint or DNA mismatch. A distinct possibility, since neither of these technologies are perfect. Then you could find yourself locked up for a considerable period.

 

As a matter of fact I do have children. Do you?

 

It was an attempt by my daughter's primary school to fingerprint all the children in their care WITHOUT parental permission that first alerted me to this disgraceful practice. With informed parental consent. No problem. Without - I would have a huge issue with this.

 

As a matter of fact I have seen the system in action and working. What difference does that make? A smiley appears on the screen as children are fingerprinted. So what? Some might call that deliberate conditioning.

 

The fact is they are being exposed unnecessarily to a critical risk of identity theft by using these things at schools. These are the experts' views, not mine.

 

Who would you trust? Some unknown manufacturer aiming to make a fast buck, or Microsoft's Identity Architect, possibly the foremost expert on identity on the planet, and a host of other specialists with backgrounds in banking, etc.

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Not necessarily. If there was a rape in my area and DNA evidence was left, I'd like to be automatically eliminated rather than having the indignity of the police coming to my house or place of business to take me away to eliminate me from their enquiries just because I had the same build and looks of the alleged attacker.

 

Yet again people start spouting on about "civil liberties" when:

 

a) This technlogy doesn't affect them (they probably don't even have kids).

 

b) Haven't seen the system in action and seen it working.

 

Firstly, DNA can't prove or disprove rape.

 

Secondly, this sort of thing affects everyone.

 

Thirdly, isn't the fact that nobody has "seen the system in action" exactly the point? The government is trying to create a DNA database via the backdoor. There has been no consultation, concerns and questions have not been answered and permission has not being sought from parents.

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Yet again people start spouting on about "civil liberties" when:

 

a) This technlogy doesn't affect them (they probably don't even have kids).

 

b) Haven't seen the system in action and seen it working.

 

You say this like:

 

a) Civil liberties only matter to people with children

 

b) Seeing something being used makes the blindest bit of difference.

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As a matter of fact I do have children. Do you?

 

Yes thanks, a two year old daughter. I also work in a school and see the benefits of these systems first-hand which certainly outweigh the paranoia that a small number of individuals have.

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Yes thanks, a two year old daughter. I also work in a school and see the benefits of these systems first-hand which certainly outweigh the paranoia that a small number of individuals have.

 

Go on then, spell it out for us crazy reactionary types. What exactly are the benefits of this system (ideally benefits that couldn't be achieved through some cheaper, simpler and far less intrusive system).

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I dont see why this is a problem at all really. Im still in education and it doesnt bother me in the slightest.

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Yes thanks, a two year old daughter. I also work in a school and see the benefits of these systems first-hand which certainly outweigh the paranoia that a small number of individuals have.

 

Ok, let's look at some of the "small number of paranoid individuals"

 

They include:

 

Kim Cameron, Microsoft's Identity Architect

 

Dr Sandra Leaton Gray, Director of Studies, Sociology of Education, Homerton College, Cambridge

 

Jon Crowcroft, Marconi Professor of Communications Systems, University of Cambridge

 

Stephen Groesz, a partner with the law firm Bindmans

 

The Austrian Supreme Court

 

The States Of Michigan, Illinios and Iowa (so far, others are likely to follow)

 

The Irish Data Protection Commissioner

 

The Hong Kong Privacy Commissioner

 

Bruce Schneier, a respected US writer and lecturer on issues surrounding security and privacy, who has testified before Congress and authored eight books and dozens of articles and academic papers.

 

Eugene Schultz, Ph.D., CISM, CISSP, CTO of High Tower Software

 

Andrew Clymer, senior identity management security expert (more than 8 years with Cisco Systems, Visa, Fidelity, Merrill Lynch, etc)

 

Paul Squires, Identity Solutions Architect at Enline plc

 

An unnamed Police Fingerprint Officer (15+ years' experience)

 

Damian Green, Tory home affairs spokesman

 

Rt Hon David Davis MP, Conservative Shadow Home Secretary

 

Nick Gibb MP, Conservative Shadow Minister For Schools

 

Baroness Carnegy, Conservative

 

Sarah Teather MP, LibDem Shadow Education Secretary

 

Greg Mulholland MP, Lib Dem Schools spokesperson

 

Baroness Walmsley, LibDem

 

83 other MPs from all parties who have signed Early Day Motion 686

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=32367&SESSION=885

(frontbenchers do not usually sign EDMs)

 

More than 1500 parents who voted last summer in an online poll against kiddyprinting without parental consent. 93% opposed fingerprinting without consent.

 

And the list goes on...

 

Do you still think it's all just "harmless fun"? Just because it's packaged up in a way to make it seem fun for kids and reduce school admin, this doesn't mean it's right. There are very serious issues here.

 

See http://www.LeaveThemKidsAlone.com/risks.htm for a full analysis

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I am the father of Shirley McKie referred to by David C in an earlier posting. You can access a variety of information about her case and the potential consequences of erroneous fingerprint identification at our website or by googling 'Shirley McKie'.

 

After a 10-year fight to prove my daughter’s innocence I believe that as ever the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the arguments being presented in this debate.

 

There can be little doubt that terrorism is a real and present danger and that biometric technology can bring with it crime prevention and safety benefits to us all.

 

Unfortunately in the unseemly rush to embrace everything biometric fuelled by political and financial motives the need to ensure safeguards when mistakes are made has been completely ignored.

 

Shirley’s case and the many others referred to on our site confirm that the experts and technology used in analysing the raw biometric data we all now provide are not infallible. There is a very real chance of mistakes being made and this fact is being compounded by politicians, police and a justice system who choose to ignore this fact.

 

Like a medicine introduced in haste there is a very real danger that the side effects of this continuing love affair with biometrics will end up being even more dangerous than the ills they are supposed to cure.

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I don't think there's very much benefit to be had in terms of fighting terrorism.

So far in the UK every recent terrorist has been home grown and radicallised. They would pass any biometric test directed at them, and then blow themself up on the tube. How would that help?

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Hi all, what a Great forum. I came across a thread here about fingerprinting kids in schools a couple of weeks ago, I can't remember the title, but it was very interesting.

 

This is what I did about the matter after catching my kids head teacher red handed trying to sneak this biometric technology into our school:

 

Leave Our Kids Alone - Movie

 

(sorry, as a new member I am not allowed to post a link to my movie from this forum until I have made 5 posts (punishing the masses to stop a few spammers) and I don't like being manipulated in to doing something unless it is of my own free will):loopy:

 

You can go to video dot google dot co dot uk and run a search for Darren Pollard and it will come up.

 

I don't belong to the website Leavethemkidsalone.com, though they have some great info on this subject.

 

I will be releasing the finished documentary on the internet very soon (I may not have the 5 posts covered by then:rant: ).

 

Any feed back is welcome.

 

Best

 

Darren

 

"Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values." Dalai Lama

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Hi all, what a Great forum. I came across a thread here about fingerprinting kids in schools a couple of weeks ago, I can't remember the title, but it was very interesting.

 

This is what I did about the matter after catching my kids head teacher red handed trying to sneak this biometric technology into our school:

 

Leave Our Kids Alone - Movie

 

(sorry, as a new member I am not allowed to post a link to my movie from this forum until I have made 5 posts (punishing the masses to stop a few spammers) and I don't like being manipulated in to doing something unless it is of my own free will):loopy:

 

You can go to video dot google dot co dot uk and run a search for Darren Pollard and it will come up.

 

I don't belong to the website Leavethemkidsalone.com, though they have some great info on this subject.

 

I will be releasing the finished documentary on the internet very soon (I may not have the 5 posts covered by then:rant: ).

 

Any feed back is welcome.

 

Best

 

Darren

 

"Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values." Dalai Lama

 

How is making five posts punishing the masses? Surely if this forum is as great as you say it is you wouldn't have any problems posting in five threads! :hihi:

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Making four more posts before your film's finished isn't difficult. I could do that in ten minutes. Why don't you post on the fingerprint thread and be part of the debate?

 

It's here. :)

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