Schoolgirl loses veil legal case

[Elan Tedrona 10]

What the hell are you talking about, mate?

 

Anyway, regarding the veil, I see classychic's point about the stereotype of women that is reinforced by many teenage and glossy magazines, and the issues it causes. But that doesn't make the veil in any way positive.

 

To claim it as simply a 'free' choice ignores the religious and cultural pressures which can act on any person. The thing is, as well, for many women in the Muslim world this is simply not a free choice. There are areas in Iraq now, for instance, where women who go out into the street with their face uncovered are in grave danger, because of the extremist views that exist out there. Like it or not, the veil has become a symbol of oppression, and choosing to wear one is a tacit endorsement of such. I simply cannot respect a woman who would choose to wear one freely.

 

But, like I said, I have serious doubts about how 'free' these choices actually are.

 

 

you are such an ignorant dolt. Sorry about the language but it's true. My mother wears the hijab or the scarf. My eldest sister does not. The youngest does. And guess what there is no husband or a father who is there to force them to wear a scarf!

 

I dare you to walk up to a muslim female on the street and ask her if she is being forced to wear the hijab. Don't worry you won't get lamped

 

 

 

Not holding my breath though.....

[cloudybay 17]

you are such an ignorant dolt. Sorry about the language but it's true. My mother wears the hijab or the scarf. My eldest sister does not. The youngest does. And guess what there is no husband or a father who is there to force them to wear a scarf!

 

I dare you to walk up to a muslim female on the street and ask her if she is being forced to wear the hijab. Don't worry you won't get lamped

 

 

 

Not holding my breath though.....

 

 

I dare you to walk up to me, and ask as to why I haven't been indoctrinated.............. I eat, drink, wear what I like, marry whom I wish, and have chosen not to be enslaved by a perfidious ideology, created by men for the benefit of men alone...................the vile cult of Islam. Grovel on the floor five times a day if you so wish, for that is all you are worth, but never, ever, in a free society, consider yourself equal to me. In your world, I may bow to you, but not in my England, ever.

[Miss_S_83 10]

I have only just read this post and haven't read all the replied but IMO it's too blummin right this has happened! Why should they have the right to wear a full veil? It's disturbing to a lot of people (for whatever reason). You go to other countries and are't allowed to sunbathe topless for example or show too much flesh, so why can't we have certain 'rules' or whatever you want to call them, too?

[Cyclone 10]

I have only just read this post and haven't read all the replied but IMO it's too blummin right this has happened! Why should they have the right to wear a full veil? It's disturbing to a lot of people (for whatever reason). You go to other countries and are't allowed to sunbathe topless for example or show too much flesh, so why can't we have certain 'rules' or whatever you want to call them, too?

 

Do you have the right to wear a balaclava if you wish?

 

That pretty much answers the question I think.

[Miss_S_83 10]

Do you have the right to wear a balaclava if you wish?

 

That pretty much answers the question I think.

 

Yes I suppose I do smart alec but I think it'd be quite right not to allow it in schools?! Don't try and belittle me with your comments, please. I have an opinion, sorry I am not part of the PC crew- if you're in a school or workplace mayeb dealing with the public or young/old people, they (veils) shouldn't be allowed, simple. It's disturbing and intimidating to a lot of people. Any other time/place, then fine.

 

Who would WANT to wear a balaclava anyway (except criminals)?!

[rubydazzler 11]

Do you have the right to wear a balaclava if you wish? That pretty much answers the question I think.

 

Even little boys don't wear balaclavas these days, they went out with short trousers and grannies have lost the power of knitting them ... they never covered your face anyway. Are you thinking of a ski mask? I think you'd soon have your collar felt if you wore one of those in the bank

 

I'm still surprised that schoolgirls have ever been allowed to wear face veils in school or anywhere else. It can't be healthy not only having your head swathed up in cloth but your face as well.

 

I thought they were only demanded for adult women anyway? Is this something to do with the fact that the age of consent in the original culture is 10 or something? I seem to remember reading that on a thread somewhere.

[Darbees 10]

'Very few and there are far more going the other way and wearing "western" womens clothing because they are integrated into society as everybody should be rather than making these symbolic gestures': darbees

 

Interagrated in society as they should be!!!!!! whatever, where is the democracy in that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing to do with democracy, everyone should be integrated into British society which is very far reaching and tolerant but wearing a veil is a deliberate and overt gesture to indicate that a person does not want to be part of it.

[rubydazzler 11]

Nothing to do with democracy, everyone should be integrated into British society which is very far reaching and tolerant but wearing a veil is a deliberate and overt gesture to indicate that a person does not want to be part of it.

 

I can't agree with that 100%, some women seem to be making it a political gesture, true, but many more are just brought up to think that it's the right thing to do and feel uncomfortable unless they efface themselves. It's like the men with the big shaggy beards and the white outfits and caps. No-one is forcing them to wear them, they just feel they should. I'm sure if there was a veil requirement for them, they'd be wearing one as well.

 

As a woman, I can remember as recently as my childhood that women's life in the West were very circumscribed, when you could be made to feel embarrassed if you accidently showed a bra strap or an inch of petticoat lace and being 'ladylike' was the be all and end all. Now, who even wears a petticoat (underskirt)?

[Plain Talker 11]

I thought they were only demanded for adult women anyway? Is this something to do with the fact that the age of consent in the original culture is 10 or something? I seem to remember reading that on a thread somewhere.

 

hi, ruby,

 

you are mostly correct in your understanding:- yes, the hijaab is theoretically for adult women, (if a young woman/ girl goes to mosque, then they'd wear hijaab, or something along those lines to cover their head, in a similar way to women going into a catholic church, in Italy or Spain, particularly would put something over their head as a sign of respect)

 

10 is not the age of consent (shock-horror!) it's the age of responsibility and (roughly, on average) start of onset of puberty.

 

In Islam, the age of about nine/ ten is the sort of demarcation between childhood and adult responsibilities, where the person is responsible, themselves for praying, reading and studying the Scriptures, going to mosque, fasting during Ramadan, etc.

 

(I suppose it can be compared to the Jewish celebration of a boy's "Bar-Mitzvah" at about 11-14, where , on the reading out of scriptures in the synagogue, the boy passes from boyhood into manhood, with the status and responsibilities that carries, as part of the congregation)

 

I don't know about the age of consent, thing, as each different country in Europe, has a different age of consent, let alone across the world:- indeed, in the US, there is inconsistency across the different states, eg in some states it's as low as 13, (or, at least, it was-i'm not up to date on any changes) and in some it's as high as 18.

 

I do know that in hotter countries, puberty tends to arrive a couple of years later than in cooler climes like ours.

[Darbees 10]

I can't agree with that 100%, some women seem to be making it a political gesture, true, but many more are just brought up to think that it's the right thing to do and feel uncomfortable unless they efface themselves. It's like the men with the big shaggy beards and the white outfits and caps. No-one is forcing them to wear them, they just feel they should. I'm sure if there was a veil requirement for them, they'd be wearing one as well.

 

As a woman, I can remember as recently as my childhood that women's life in the West were very circumscribed, when you could be made to feel embarrassed if you accidently showed a bra strap or an inch of petticoat lace and being 'ladylike' was the be all and end all. Now, who even wears a petticoat (underskirt)?

I feel that the wearing of the burka (sp) and the wearing of shaggy beards has become far more prevalent here since the various issues (for want of a better word) have happened since 9/11 and it is a very obvious statement. The hijab has always been worn on these shores by many women and is not the same in my opinion and doesn't stand out for all to see like the burka. It is ironic that one of the supposed reasons for wearing a burka is that the woman doesn't want men to look at her and yet the burka itself attracts attention in this country.

 

Out of a membership of 35,000+ on this forum there doesn't appear to be anyone who has commented from the perspective of a person who wears a burka and so all our comments from both sides of the "argument" are speculative.

[CockneyMafia 10]

I feel that the wearing of the burka (sp) and the wearing of shaggy beards has become far more prevalent here since the various issues (for want of a better word) have happened since 9/11 and it is a very obvious statement. The hijab has always been worn on these shores by many women and is not the same in my opinion and doesn't stand out for all to see like the burka. It is ironic that one of the supposed reasons for wearing a burka is that the woman doesn't want men to look at her and yet the burka itself attracts attention in this country.

 

Out of a membership of 35,000+ on this forum there doesn't appear to be anyone who has commented from the perspective of a person who wears a burka and so all our comments from both sides of the "argument" are speculative.

 

Well I wear a Niqab, but only when robbing banks or urban fringe post offices.

[Plain Talker 11]

I feel that the wearing of the burka (sp) and the wearing of shaggy beards has become far more prevalent here since the various issues (for want of a better word) have happened since 9/11 and it is a very obvious statement. The hijab has always been worn on these shores by many women and is not the same in my opinion and doesn't stand out for all to see like the burka. It is ironic that one of the supposed reasons for wearing a burka is that the woman doesn't want men to look at her and yet the burka itself attracts attention in this country.

 

Out of a membership of 35,000+ on this forum there doesn't appear to be anyone who has commented from the perspective of a person who wears a burka and so all our comments from both sides of the "argument" are speculative.

 

I wore hijaab and jilbab in the past. I havent worn Burka, myself, but I have friends from Saudi who wear those.

 

(jilbab is the long coat-like robe that some muslim women wear along with Hijaab, and sometines niqaab- the face veil)