Schoolgirl loses veil legal case

[Mr1chop 10]

George hey? first name terms arn't we jumping above our station today?

It's people like you that old George uses as cannon fodder mate. There is no sane person who condones death of any innocent person, esxcept those of your type of mentality who can make statements like the one above. These "apes" is a reference to asians, that you know were cellebrating in the street do you? or is it a general racist slur of a fatherless bigot refering to all asians? In which case no need to debate with a moron.

Also YES the invasion has killed more people (civillians) than Saddam did.

 

First off I am not your "mate", second, you didnt condone these apes dancing in the street at the death of 2.5k people in your origional reply, you said

To say down with America is such a crime at Page Hall. I think we should send in the SAS or better still get the friendly Americans to bomb Pagehall. Hey it works so well in Iraq why wouldn't it here? Whilst they are at it there may even be some muslim terrorist doctors near by

 

Directly in responce to the twin towers, dancing in the street and chanting down with america (this was not all they were saying, I was trying not to embarace the decent Muslims on SF) in celebration makes these people just as bad as the bombers themselves and you clearly support that stance yourself or you would not come out with comments like the above: I now have a solid picture built of you in my mind!.

 

These "apes" is a reference to asians, that you know were cellebrating in the street do you? or is it a general racist slur of a fatherless bigot refering to all asians? In which case no need to debate with a moron.

 

You tell me! were they Asains celebrating the death of 2.5k people, you were proberly there.

If I was saying "apes" in reference to all Asians or jonny forighners then I think my wife might have had a problem with that. But once again your narrow mind and your blindness have led your to come out with the same old America this and America that rant. You sound just like Abu Hamza Peace be upon him.

You seem to be the one who is the racist.

 

Also YES the invasion has killed more people (civillians) than Saddam did.

 

And I think you will find that most of the Deaths have and are being caused by those oh so peacefull Muslims and hey, they are killing even more peacfull Muslims. Just like all over the world it is Islam at war.

[tab1 10]

First off I am not your "mate":

My mistake, just a term I may have picked up during a Sheffield upbringing You are right we are not mates, phew!

I now have a solid picture built of you in my mind!.

Hmm, yet another hoop, it wasn't enough to answer your posts, now I must pleasure you to create a positive picture in your mind?

Celebrating any death is deplorable and is just as distasteful for your ilk to celebrate deaths in Iraq and advocate killing people in Iran Page hall, or anywhere else just as bad as it is for any moron to celebrate deaths of 9/11. Create whatever picture in YOUR mind.

You tell me! were they Asains celebrating the death of 2.5k people, you were proberly there.

You seem to be the one who is the racist.

You claim to have seen them and that you are certain of who they are to guide the cluster bombs I thought you would've known if I was there or not?

You seem to be the one who is the racist.

 

 

 

And I think you will find that most of the Deaths have and are being caused by those oh so peacefull Muslims and hey, they are killing even more peacfull Muslims. Just like all over the world it is Islam at war.

Clearly I must be racist to object to people being called apes, hmmm?

Read up some facts not the Fox News version of events but the reality.

[medusa 16]

Play nicely please tab1 and Mr1chop.

 

You're both very close to the line between disagreeing and insulting. You can disagree all you like on SF, but insulting is against the rules.

[tab1 10]

Thanks Medusa, consider it done

[Mr1chop 10]

My mistake, just a term I may have picked up during a Sheffield upbringing You are right we are not mates, phew!{/QOUTE]

 

With your Sheffield upbringing you must have lots of friends who are white non Muslims, and in the 3 generations your family has been here how many times has there been an interracial marriage in your whole family.

 

 

Hmm, yet another hoop, it wasn't enough to answer your posts, now I must pleasure you to create a positive picture in your mind?

 

 

Positive in you warped mind, but then again look what he’s been brought up with.

 

Celebrating any death is deplorable and is just as distasteful for your ilk to celebrate deaths in Iraq and advocate killing people in Iran Page hall,

 

I am glad it was you that put Iran in page hall, how true you are.

 

You claim to have seen them and that you are certain of who they are to guide the cluster bombs I thought you would've known if I was there or not?

 

How can I tell the difference between a lunatic calling for the death of the USA and a taxi driver calling for the death of the USA.?

 

Clearly I must be racist to object to people being called apes, hmmm?

Read up some facts not the Fox News version of events but the reality.

 

As a matter of evolution we are all apes or descendants of.! oh but you wont believe that will you, tuff we are.!!.

 

Plus when someone jumps up and down waving there arms about shouting in some incoherent language then I think they resemble jungle apes who you see on the TV banging there branches and trees going mad

I have never heard "apes" being used to insult Asians

[tab1 10]

With your Sheffield upbringing you must have lots of friends who are white non Muslims, and in the 3 generations your family has been here how many times has there been an interracial marriage in your whole family.

Indeed most of my friends since school are from Manor and Intake, where people like you are ten a penny, but fortunately plenty of good people too. Most of friends we have kept in touch with over the years are men and I don't intend marrying any of them, just good friends is good enough As for other members of the family, well is way off topic.

Positive in you warped mind, but then again look what he’s been brought up with.

Yes people from Manor, Hmmm, you don't like people from Manor? What's wrong with them?

How can I tell the difference between a lunatic calling for the death of the USA and a taxi driver calling for the death of the USA.?

Easy to tell difference between people, I have to do it all the time, between someone like for example Zamo, and Lord Chaverly, and someone like yourself, quite simple telling intellect from not so bright realy. The admission that you are unable to distinguish speaks volumes about you,

As a matter of evolution we are all apes or descendants of.! oh but you wont believe that will you, tuff we are.!!.

My my, you have been looking up your family tree, but please do speak for yourself I did have a suspicion, and thanks for confirming them

Plus when someone jumps up and down waving there arms about shouting in some incoherent language then I think they resemble jungle apes who you see on the TV banging there branches and trees going mad

I have never heard "apes" being used to insult Asians

I don't know realy, nowdays I don't go to football matches any more, but is that what you do there, sounds like you do have a lot of fun. Yeah you're right I've never heard of apes being used to insult Asians either

[Mr1chop 10]

Its seams like our debate is leading to no where, I have doubts about your religion, you have doubts about my beliefs; so why don’t you start to put me right on a few things, instead of us descending into childish arguments. We could have an Islam question and answers tread! What do you think? it sounds like a good idea to me.

 

I don’t hate Asians or any race, I do not think I am inherently better than any other race, I do disagree with a lot of things some others believe in as others have a right to disagree with my beliefs. it will only be resoled with open debate on both sides with straight answers for each other.

I am willing to do this, are you.?

[Cyclone 10]

it will only be resoled with open debate on both sides with straight answers for each other.

I am willing to do this, are you.?

 

That's pretty optimistic. You will probably never agree on the issue, the best you can hope for is that both sides can accept that the other has different beliefs and just let it go.

[tab1 10]

Its seams like our debate is leading to no where, I have doubts about your religion, you have doubts about my beliefs; so why don’t you start to put me right on a few things, instead of us descending into childish arguments. We could have an Islam question and answers tread! What do you think? it sounds like a good idea to me.

 

I don’t hate Asians or any race, I do not think I am inherently better than any other race, I do disagree with a lot of things some others believe in as others have a right to disagree with my beliefs. it will only be resoled with open debate on both sides with straight answers for each other.

I am willing to do this, are you.?

Hmmmm, I thought that is what was happening when you decided that I was an insurgent and let your warped imagination run away with you.

Tab1, you do spout some serious S**TE, If you were a citizen of this country , then you would have a right to speak your mind about how we live and our culture our society, but as your above comment says, it is not your country, you are here as a insurgent a sleeper Islamist who is obviously trying to undermine the public on here by telling lies and untruths about your religion.

 

And how on this earth can you class yourself as a free thinker,. that is the uttermost pile of tripe I have ever heard. Tell me the last time when you stood up and said No that part of Islam is wrong, we should treat women as equals, we should not hang teenage boys because of there sexually orientation, Hey but you don’t and you wont, no big surprise.

Debating with someone who actually knows what they are talking about is a pleasure even though you may not agree with them but you can respect their reasons for having such views. You have not shown anything other than being capable of personal abuse. My religion nor I owe you any explanations and if you realy want to learn anything about Islam I suggest you read up on it rather than expect me to teach you.

I havn't set about changing our society and resent such accusations so always have sought to point out to other forumers that what they percieve as a threat, isn't so. Bad people exist, and wheather they are Muslims or otherwise is secondary, and they should be dealt with by the Law on that basis. To cattagorise all muslims as fundemental Islamists is wrong and unjust, and that has consistently been my argument in almost all the posts. People are just that, people, and some indeed do bad things regardless of their religion. There have been long and boring discussions on Islam already covering almost all aspects of life, so it seems silly to start afresh on another one.

[Zamo 10]

Does your "family" example extend to you feeling responsible for what the Spanish and the Germans do in their respective countries because they are also Christians? By the same principle you should do. I can't feel and won't be held responsible for some indonesian or a Somali committing an offence simply because he is a Muslim. When I gave the example of the rape murder of the two year old, and how responsible people here felt? Some here thought it insensitive but the same people have no quarms about using the same yardstick to judge others.

 

I don't know what the Germans or Spanish have got to do with it but I suppose if Christians started doing bad things in the name of their religion then I would say that all Christians had a duty to do something about it and I would tut-tut and shake my head at Christianity in general (I do that anyway as it happens).

 

Nobody is holding you directly responsible for "some indonesian or a Somali committing an offence simply because he is a Muslim". People will however judge your religion based on acts committed in its name and, as a follower, you too are going to be judged whether you like it or not.

 

Your example of the 2 year old being raped and murdered is a silly example because she wasn't killed in the name of Christianity.

 

I'm afraid distraction tactics aren't going to deflect eyes away from Islam. Bad things are being done in the name of your religion and people don't like it.

[tab1 10]

I don't know what the Germans or Spanish have got to do with it but I suppose if Christians started doing bad things in the name of their religion then I would say that all Christians had a duty to do something about it and I would tut-tut and shake my head at Christianity in general (I do that anyway as it happens).

 

Nobody is holding you directly responsible for "some indonesian or a Somali committing an offence simply because he is a Muslim". People will however judge your religion based on acts committed in its name and, as a follower, you too are going to be judged whether you like it or not.

 

Your example of the 2 year old being raped and murdered is a silly example because she wasn't killed in the name of Christianity.

 

I'm afraid distraction tactics aren't going to deflect eyes away from Islam. Bad things are being done in the name of your religion and people don't like it.

No muslim I know has ever accepted that anything is done in the name of religion, but most people such as yourself suggest so. The war in Iraq is not religious but different factions fighting to gain power, including the Americans. All sides using pretext of freedom as they see it. Same thing in Isreal and elsewhere. Where has there been an attempt to take power in the West by Islam that you fear so much? Every attrocity has been committed by people who, not unlike yourself, hold an entire continents (Europe or America) responsible for attacks on their people. Every attack that you would protray as Islamic has other routs and reasons which are actually non-religious.

They are mistakenly generalising that every westerner is somehow responsible for their woes. and consequently Bali, Madrid and London attacks. Not because Islam wants Sharia Law in England. Even the Trade Centre attacks in 1995 and then the 9/11 are a direct result of USA medling in the Middle East and the attcks on Sudan and misile attacks by Clinton in an attempt to kill Bin Laden, and not religious.

That is why I posed a question to you earlier as, What is the difference between your reasoning in blaming the other side, and the reasons used by terrorists to justify their attacks? I can't see much difference, both equally wrong, hence my objections.

[Zamo 10]

Let me put it another way; More so regarding Iraq.

 

Q. You are walking home one night down a brightly lit road where you come upon 2 youths attacking a old woman and beating upon her they will surley kill her, there is no one who you can call for help.

 

A. Do you a walk on bye and leave the youths to kill this woman

 

Or

 

B. Do you intervene and if possible give the youths a kicking yourself.

 

??????????????

 

I think I know the answer do you.

 

 

International affairs aren't so simple but what the hell... let's run with your example anyway.

 

So, let's say that one of these youths is the top bad boy. He has a gang that rules their neighbourhood through fear and, about once a week, they give some innocent granny a slap in order to assert their authority and remind the neighbourhood who's in charge. You are from another neighbourhood and hear about this and decided to go in to sort them out - although some say you are only doing it because she is 98 y.o. and you're after the inheritance.

 

So you round up some mates and go steaming in. In the process of sparing this one person a hiding you actually end up beating up five innocent people who get caught in the crossfire. Never mind, you have done a good thing and stand on the back of your mates pick-up truck and declare "mission accomplished!"

 

Only, then the dust begins to settle. You find out that the neighbourhood actually has loads of horrible gangs and, whilst the lot you took out were bad, they actually kept the others in check and as such the violence down. Without the dominant gang maintaining calm, the neighbourhood descends into anarchy as all the other gangs fight for power.

 

So, to save one person from harm - for noble reasons, even though nobody believes you - you hurt five yourself and then left the neighbourhood in a state of civil unrest where attacks on innocent people are ten times what they used to be. Local shops are closing down as the people with any money get out. Bin men refuse to collect rubbish and buses won't go through the estate. It is a complete mess.

 

You of course argue that it isn't your fault that the gangs are doing all this but we all know that it is a direct result of what you did. You stuck your nose in and made a bad situation worse and everyone is asking why? It wasn't even your neighbourhood to sort out. It is either a genuine mistake by an idiot who didn't know better or you are a scumbag yourself who was just after the inheritance all along.

 

What do you think should be done about people like that?

 

I think I know the answer do you?

 

 

I have never said I want to impose beliefs on any one as I don’t believe in any god, I would like the murderers to be removed and sane people in power who doesn’t want to kill there own people!.

Belief isn't just about religion.

 

It might be your belief that democracy is the way to go, that women shouldn't wear veils, that arranged marriages are wrong etc, etc. I probably share most of your values because we are the product of the same culture but other people won't agree because they are from a different culture. If you want other cultures to leave ours be then we should extend the same courtesy.

 

So has the west's invasion of Iraq killed more people than Saddam Husain did?

 

Pro rata, yes. Remember, Saddam had twenty years to notch up his body count.

 

Or is it a minority of lunatics on both Shia and Sunny sides who are doing most of the killings, of course armed by Iran.?

 

See example above - the USA and the UK cannot absolve themselves of responsibility for the civil unrest. It is a product of their actions.