ID card petition - closing 15th February

[esme 10]

I am wholly in favour of Identitiy cards. Ultimately I will be able to ditch my big wallet full of cards and have a single card which does everything. While working as my driving license and passport too.

 

Is there a petition to sign up for in favour?

 

and when it's compromised your bank account and credit cards are all available to the criminal and because of the supposedly infallible biometric information on there you won't be able to prove the transactions weren't you, and even if you could what happens then will you be issued with a new id card containing biometrics that are different from the original somehow

 

if you want a petition start one, it's the main site just follow the link in the first post and go to the home page it won't register as a petition entry unless you fill in the details and send a confirmation email

[esme 10]

What 'random officials' are they? Isn't it a good thing for a Policeman to be able to confirm somebody's identity without having to hold them and go through details? Are you worried about a Policeman being able to identify you?

yes it is a good thing for a policeman to be able to verify someones identity, and if they can't then they can arrest the individual on suspicion of something or other, and if they aren't prepared to arrest someone they have no reason to stop them, no I am not worried about a policeman being able to identify me as I said i carry identification already, I have relations in the force and it's interesting to note that they are against the idea too

 

Would you rather take a load of house receipts to the bank/store lender, or just an ID card?

I find a drivers license or a credit card works just as well

 

I can see criminals objecting, or green-haired earring-adorned anarchists, but why on Earth would a normal, mature, tax-paying citizen object to something that should help us all?

I am nither a criminal, green haired or earring adorned, I am as normal as they come, mature and tax paying I resent the implication that I am otherwise

 

I may have anarchic tendencies so I'll give you that one as I don't believe the politicians are accurately reflecting the opinions of the country

 

Also I am not a citizen and neither are you, we are subjects of the crown and not citizens of a state it's an important distinction

 

... oh and I nearly forgot "should help us all" ? you mean you aren't certain ? or you can provide no examples of the help the card "should" give beyond helping those in authority know who I am which they would know about me from the documents I normally carry, I'm confused here please give me some examples of this "help" the card "should" provide

[Organgrinder 1,946]

The idea of ID cards may be a good one and I used to be in favour myself.

However, every recent bit of Hi-Tech security has been by-passed and I have no faith whatsoever in this governments ability to do a good job in setting anything up. They couldn't organise a p**s up in a brewery.

 

It will not be compulsory to carry them so will a would-be terrorist be asked to show it at a police staion 3 days later? - fat lot of good.

 

They are going to be expensive and NO, the government are not going to pay for them - WE are the ones who are going to pay. The estimated costs are high already and everything finishes up double what they predicted.

 

Many people, including myself, have already experienced problems caused by wrong information being entered in error by Government / public officials.

 

I say NO and predict that they will prove a costly mistake leading only to more expensive bureaucracry and a further loss in civil liberties.

[AtticusFinch 10]

I'm dead against ID cards and I'd go to jail before having one. It completely changes the relationship between citizen and state, and is an insult in a so-called free society. The state works for us, we don't work for them, and I object to having to prove who I am upon request. If I'm not breaking any laws then what I do is absolutely none of the government's business. Don't you think there's a good reason why the right to privacy is always included in human rights lists?

 

A DNA database automatically makes us all a nation of suspects and could be data-mined in unimaginable ways. Let's say that a complete genetic profile of your DNA reveals that there's a small risk of you getting an obscure disease. Straight away you'd be unable to get insurance, even if you're never likely to actually contract the disease.

 

A DNA database could also lead to increasingly lazy policing. If the police can find DNA at the scene of a crime and have a complete record of all DNA in the UK, why should they bother investigating for motive, alibi etc? If you've walked your dog through a field one evening, you've got dandruff, a murder happens to be committed in the same spot a month later and your partner was out so you have no alibi, well the murderer has to be you because your DNA is there isn't it?

 

I read about a recent case of mail theft where the stolen letters were recovered and the police managed to obtain DNA from them. After arresting a suspect who proclaimed his innocence, the guy's lawyer eventually found out why the police thought it was him. They'd found his DNA on christmas cards that he'd sent out to friends and family which were among the stolen letters retrieved! It wasn't him who'd committed the crime at all, but the police had DNA so that was enough for them. The charge was then thrown out, but only because the lawyer had investigated further. There's a mistaken belief that DNA is 100% accurate, but it can never be because it's processed by humans.

 

If ID cards are introduced you'll have function creep so that they're needed to purchase virtually everything. It'll start off with government departments like the HMRC, passport office etc, will move onto the NHS and education and will finish up so that you can't get a job without one. NO ID card? You can't board this train then I'm afraid. If your record is deleted then you've suddenly become a non-person. What's to stop senior government or security service figures deleting records of those they don't like purely out of spite? If an investigative journalist or political activist has the government on the run with an imminent huge scoop, what better way to stop them than delete their record? If someone goes out with the daughter of a high-level bureaucrat and cheats on them, what better way to get revenge?

 

Even if you ignore the civil liberties arguments, the whole scheme just doesn't stand up to reason. There's no way that a complete biometric database of the entire UK population with tens if not hundreds of thousands of access points from public sector workers could ever be secure. The entire database would be an identity thief's dream. They'd no longer have to root through dustbins or set up phishing websites, they'd just need to learn how to hack. If they can hack the database then they have complete information on a person. In an age where teenage schoolboys can hack into the pentagon, this is entirely possible. About two years ago the Department of Work and Pensions database was hacked by identity thieves and the identities of thousands of its employees were stolen. Not to mention that the contracts for the databases will probably be given to the usual suspects like EDS who have proven track records in cocking up governmental IT projects.

 

Then there's the canard about crime and terrorism. ID cards will stop neither. Criminals will just obtain forgeries of ID cards (anything which can be made can also be forged). The July 7th bombers were British citizens who would have all had ID cards, and the Madrid bombers also had ID cards. The whole scheme will cost billions which could be better spent on countless other things, such as Britain's shocking child poverty performance revealed today.

 

Saying all this though, I don't think ID cards will happen. The conservatives have now said that they'll scrap ID cards if they win the next election, and there are a lot of people rolling their sleeves up for a major fight over this if the government are stupid enough to press ahead with it. I think that if the scheme did reach an advanced stage, once the average Joe realised that they were required to shell out at least £80 (probably much more) for something they'd never asked for in the first place, the whole thing will die on its arse.

[Dozey 10]

I'm dead against ID cards and I'd go to jail before having one. It completely changes the relationship between citizen and state, and is an insult in a so-called free society. The state works for us, we don't work for them, and I object to having to prove who I am upon request. If I'm not breaking any laws then what I do is absolutely none of the government's business. Don't you think there's a good reason why the right to privacy is always included in human rights lists?

 

A DNA database automatically makes us all a nation of suspects and could be data-mined in unimaginable ways. Let's say that a complete genetic profile of your DNA reveals that there's a small risk of you getting an obscure disease. Straight away you'd be unable to get insurance, even if you're never likely to actually contract the disease.

 

A DNA database could also lead to increasingly lazy policing. If the police can find DNA at the scene of a crime and have a complete record of all DNA in the UK, why should they bother investigating for motive, alibi etc? If you've walked your dog through a field one evening, you've got dandruff, a murder happens to be committed in the same spot a month later and your partner was out so you have no alibi, well the murderer has to be you because your DNA is there isn't it?

 

I read about a recent case of mail theft where the stolen letters were recovered and the police managed to obtain DNA from them. After arresting a suspect who proclaimed his innocence, the guy's lawyer eventually found out why the police thought it was him. They'd found his DNA on christmas cards that he'd sent out to friends and family which were among the stolen letters retrieved! It wasn't him who'd committed the crime at all, but the police had DNA so that was enough for them. The charge was then thrown out, but only because the lawyer had investigated further. There's a mistaken belief that DNA is 100% accurate, but it can never be because it's processed by humans.

 

If ID cards are introduced you'll have function creep so that they're needed to purchase virtually everything. It'll start off with government departments like the HMRC, passport office etc, will move onto the NHS and education and will finish up so that you can't get a job without one. NO ID card? You can't board this train then I'm afraid. If your record is deleted then you've suddenly become a non-person. What's to stop senior government or security service figures deleting records of those they don't like purely out of spite? If an investigative journalist or political activist has the government on the run with an imminent huge scoop, what better way to stop them than delete their record? If someone goes out with the daughter of a high-level bureaucrat and cheats on them, what better way to get revenge?

 

Even if you ignore the civil liberties arguments, the whole scheme just doesn't stand up to reason. There's no way that a complete biometric database of the entire UK population with tens if not hundreds of thousands of access points from public sector workers could ever be secure. The entire database would be an identity thief's dream. They'd no longer have to root through dustbins or set up phishing websites, they'd just need to learn how to hack. If they can hack the database then they have complete information on a person. In an age where teenage schoolboys can hack into the pentagon, this is entirely possible. About two years ago the Department of Work and Pensions database was hacked by identity thieves and the identities of thousands of its employees were stolen. Not to mention that the contracts for the databases will probably be given to the usual suspects like EDS who have proven track records in cocking up governmental IT projects.

 

Then there's the canard about crime and terrorism. ID cards will stop neither. Criminals will just obtain forgeries of ID cards (anything which can be made can also be forged). The July 7th bombers were British citizens who would have all had ID cards, and the Madrid bombers also had ID cards. The whole scheme will cost billions which could be better spent on countless other things, such as Britain's shocking child poverty performance revealed today.

 

Saying all this though, I don't think ID cards will happen. The conservatives have now said that they'll scrap ID cards if they win the next election, and there are a lot of people rolling their sleeves up for a major fight over this if the government are stupid enough to press ahead with it. I think that if the scheme did reach an advanced stage, once the average Joe realised that they were required to shell out at least £80 (probably much more) for something they'd never asked for in the first place, the whole thing will die on its arse.

 

Excellent common sense post,i agree with you 100%.

[esme 10]

let me see, last election was May 2005 the next one must take place by May 2010, as it's supposed to be every five years at most

 

and the card rollout is supposed to start in 2009

 

they are cutting that awfully close I must say, it wouldn't take much of a slip to push it beyond the next election

[esme 10]

last chance

[Guest_225 10]

I'm dead against ID cards and I'd go to jail before having one. It completely changes the relationship between citizen and state, and is an insult in a so-called free society. The state works for us, we don't work for them, and I object to having to prove who I am upon request. If I'm not breaking any laws then what I do is absolutely none of the government's business. Don't you think there's a good reason why the right to privacy is always included in human rights lists?

 

A DNA database automatically makes us all a nation of suspects and could be data-mined in unimaginable ways. Let's say that a complete genetic profile of your DNA reveals that there's a small risk of you getting an obscure disease. Straight away you'd be unable to get insurance, even if you're never likely to actually contract the disease.

 

A DNA database could also lead to increasingly lazy policing. If the police can find DNA at the scene of a crime and have a complete record of all DNA in the UK, why should they bother investigating for motive, alibi etc? If you've walked your dog through a field one evening, you've got dandruff, a murder happens to be committed in the same spot a month later and your partner was out so you have no alibi, well the murderer has to be you because your DNA is there isn't it?

 

I read about a recent case of mail theft where the stolen letters were recovered and the police managed to obtain DNA from them. After arresting a suspect who proclaimed his innocence, the guy's lawyer eventually found out why the police thought it was him. They'd found his DNA on christmas cards that he'd sent out to friends and family which were among the stolen letters retrieved! It wasn't him who'd committed the crime at all, but the police had DNA so that was enough for them. The charge was then thrown out, but only because the lawyer had investigated further. There's a mistaken belief that DNA is 100% accurate, but it can never be because it's processed by humans.

 

If ID cards are introduced you'll have function creep so that they're needed to purchase virtually everything. It'll start off with government departments like the HMRC, passport office etc, will move onto the NHS and education and will finish up so that you can't get a job without one. NO ID card? You can't board this train then I'm afraid. If your record is deleted then you've suddenly become a non-person. What's to stop senior government or security service figures deleting records of those they don't like purely out of spite? If an investigative journalist or political activist has the government on the run with an imminent huge scoop, what better way to stop them than delete their record? If someone goes out with the daughter of a high-level bureaucrat and cheats on them, what better way to get revenge?

 

Even if you ignore the civil liberties arguments, the whole scheme just doesn't stand up to reason. There's no way that a complete biometric database of the entire UK population with tens if not hundreds of thousands of access points from public sector workers could ever be secure. The entire database would be an identity thief's dream. They'd no longer have to root through dustbins or set up phishing websites, they'd just need to learn how to hack. If they can hack the database then they have complete information on a person. In an age where teenage schoolboys can hack into the pentagon, this is entirely possible. About two years ago the Department of Work and Pensions database was hacked by identity thieves and the identities of thousands of its employees were stolen. Not to mention that the contracts for the databases will probably be given to the usual suspects like EDS who have proven track records in cocking up governmental IT projects.

 

Then there's the canard about crime and terrorism. ID cards will stop neither. Criminals will just obtain forgeries of ID cards (anything which can be made can also be forged). The July 7th bombers were British citizens who would have all had ID cards, and the Madrid bombers also had ID cards. The whole scheme will cost billions which could be better spent on countless other things, such as Britain's shocking child poverty performance revealed today.

 

Saying all this though, I don't think ID cards will happen. The conservatives have now said that they'll scrap ID cards if they win the next election, and there are a lot of people rolling their sleeves up for a major fight over this if the government are stupid enough to press ahead with it. I think that if the scheme did reach an advanced stage, once the average Joe realised that they were required to shell out at least £80 (probably much more) for something they'd never asked for in the first place, the whole thing will die on its arse.

 

I agree 100% with everything said and already signed the petition a while back when it first came out.

 

One more thing to note is that this database once set up won't go away and could be used for extremely malicious reasons by a future government who may not be nearly as benign and liberal as the current one. I can imagine the return of an extreme right wing government who wanted to introduce mass repatriation - easy with the DNA database, how many generations would Sir want to go back. Eugenics anyone? Yes lets weed out the cripples and feeble minded and also those likely to give birth to them. Easy with the DNA database.

 

It's been done before so don't ever say it wont happen again, and with this technology it would be a doddle.

[Guest_225 10]

http://www.no2id.net/

 

Lots of good information on this site and ideas for how to become involved in the campaign against the database and card