I don't normally get a kick from the suffering of other human beings...

[LordChaverly 10]

Personally I think the justice system is too easy on offenders such as these, and I understand why people can be frustrated by this. How any sensible person can condone mob violence as an alternative to ordered justice is beond me. If you allow a self apointed gang of thugs to dispense their own brand of justice, sooner or later they will come for you!

Here's an example of mob justice:

 

A few years ago in Newport a vigalante group formed to 'sort out' a local paedophile, fueled by the 'News of the World's name and shame campaign.

(With them so far? Good.)

 

They turned up at his home but he wasn't there so they smashed a few windows and did some chanting...then they got bored....

So they went round to see some people who they thought might me paedophiles (any elderly male living alone more or less) and they broke some more windows, and some neighbours windows, and did some more chanting.

 

To finish the evening in style they attacked the home of a femaile paediatrician, smashing windows and daubing slogans on the walls. The woman managed to flee the house unhurt, but couldn't return until police could track down the morons responsible and explain the mistake (oh how they laughed)....

 

Still feel happy to associate your self with mob justice? If so your as daft as they are.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/story/0,7369,361031,00.html

 

 

The story of a paediatrician being attacked by a mob who mistook her for a paedophile has been exposed as an urban legend at least twice on this forum.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised that it is still doing the rounds, as it has considerable appeal as a moral homily (except that it is untrue).

[rubydazzler 11]

I don't think I have ever applauded arbitrary mob justice and certainly I don't. I certainly don't think prisoners should even be in the position of being able to take the law into their own hands and dish out their own 'punishment'.

 

I'm calling for officially sanctioned suffering to be inflicted in proportion to the original offence, in cases of violence and sexual crimes. If people are willing to inflict suffering and terror on others, it's my opinion now that they should be given a taste of what it's like and see how they like it. We've tried the being understanding and counselling and carrot, it doesn't seem to have worked, things are going from bad to worse. So maybe it's time to bring back a bit of the stick.

 

When I was young I too was very liberal about things of which I had no knowledge. Age and experience bring disillusionment and cynicism to most of us. I'm obviously defective in my understanding of quid pro quo. You'll have to forgive me.

[fr8neck 10]

I don't think I have ever applauded arbitrary mob justice and certainly I don't. I certainly don't think prisoners should even be in the position of being able to take the law into their own hands and dish out their own 'punishment'.

 

I'm calling for officially sanctioned suffering to be inflicted in proportion to the original offence, in cases of violence and sexual crimes. If people are willing to inflict suffering and terror on others, it's my opinion now that they should be given a taste of what it's like and see how they like it. We've tried the being understanding and counselling and carrot, it doesn't seem to have worked, things are going from bad to worse. So maybe it's time to bring back a bit of the stick.

 

 

:thumbsup:

[Kthebean 10]

I don't think I have ever applauded arbitrary mob justice and certainly I don't. I certainly don't think prisoners should even be in the position of being able to take the law into their own hands and dish out their own 'punishment'.

 

I'm calling for officially sanctioned suffering to be inflicted in proportion to the original offence, in cases of violence and sexual crimes. If people are willing to inflict suffering and terror on others, it's my opinion now that they should be given a taste of what it's like and see how they like it. We've tried the being understanding and counselling and carrot, it doesn't seem to have worked, things are going from bad to worse. So maybe it's time to bring back a bit of the stick.

 

But why not just lock them up and keep them inside? Forever?

 

I'm all for prison officers 'turning a blind eye', but i do NOT want to live in a state of 'officially sanctioned suffering', the phrase is chilling. How do you work out how much the women/men they raped have suffered, and inflict it back on them? More for a gang rape? Will there be less punishment if they raped a prostitute, rather than a suburban housewife?

 

Also, it seems a little like telling off a dog half an hour after it has crapped on the floor. The idea that any rapist is going to link themselves being raped in prison with the crime they committed and emerge a fully rounded individual is laughable. If you truly do not believe in rehabilitiation -and in the case of sex crimes I dont think I do - keep them locked up forever, and divert valuable parliamentary time and police and prison resources to convicting more rapists and preventing more crimes instead of sadistically pursuing the ones already behind bars.

[Normon 10]

Would all those who have so stoutly approved of violence being dished out in prison also care to comment on how grand it was that convicted thief and first time offender Zahid Mubarek was beaten to death with a table leg at Feltham in March 2000?

 

Would they likewise care to explain (cloudybay?) how they see this fitting into their view of 'social justice'? Would the vengeance seekers care to explain to me how fair and proper it is that a young lad of 19 in prison for the first time should be beaten into a coma and then die and whether they feel this this reflects well on their sense of moral values - the one that says 'violence is alright - as long as it happens to people we don't like'?

He was a criminal, deemed bad enough by the courts to be jailed.

Criminals should be stripped of their human rights, and there should be no sympathy when one of them dies, just a sigh of relief that one less burden on society is stealing our oxygen.

[Greybeard 10]

Would all those who have so stoutly approved of violence being dished out in prison also care to comment on how grand it was that convicted thief and first time offender Zahid Mubarek was beaten to death with a table leg at Feltham in March 2000?

 

This was a racially motivated attack which just happened to occur in prison and nothing to do with revenge or 'private justice'.

 

IMO until prisoners guilty of nasty violent crimes are officially given a 'hard time' by the prison authorities while serving their sentences other prisoners will judge that they're getting off lightly and seek to redress the balance.

 

For such prisoners there needs to be a period of punishment before attempts are made at reform and rehabilitation. Hard labour, basic rations, no 'comforts' etc. - a regime similar to that employed in the old military detention quarters for a couple of years and no automatic remission or consideration for parole without a squeaky clean conduct record.

[rubydazzler 11]

But why not just lock them up and keep them inside? Forever?

 

But that doesn't happen very often, and when it does - they aren't productive and useful members of society, so why are we keeping them?

 

I'm all for prison officers 'turning a blind eye', but i do NOT want to live in a state of 'officially sanctioned suffering', the phrase is chilling. How do you work out how much the women/men they raped have suffered, and inflict it back on them? More for a gang rape? Will there be less punishment if they raped a prostitute, rather than a suburban housewife?

 

I can't agree with you about prison officers 'turning a blind eye'. That can never be right. What I mean about "officially sanctioned suffering" is a moot point and would have to be worked out by suitable people, maybe lashes, caning, hard labour, the mental torture of an uncertain future, I'm not qualified to judge. I wasn't suggesting they should be raped by other prisoners or prison officers! But, certainly not a cushy billet in a nice prison and being allowed access to the internet, other likeminded people, etc. Regarding the tariff, rape is rape whoever inflicted on, occupation, age or sex is irrelevant, the fear and suffering is comparable for all.

 

If you truly do not believe in rehabilitiation -and in the case of sex crimes I dont think I do - keep them locked up forever, and divert valuable parliamentary time and police and prison resources to convicting more rapists and preventing more crimes instead of sadistically pursuing the ones already behind bars.

 

I partly agree with you, but as I've reiterated time and again, I would sanction the death penalty for deliberate murder, and other serious crimes of violence. I can't justify the vast resources being wasted on these people, it'd be better spent on the other valuable services we need to supply to society.

[Kthebean 10]

One interesting thing in terms of resources is that is has been calculated many times that the cost to the state of executing someone is higher than it is to imprison them for life. For a start, the burden of proof is higher (quite rightly) and so the judicial process is more drawn out. If you are concerned about resources, stick them in a skanky little jail and ignore them for the rest of their lives.

 

I agree that there should be no comfort, hard labour, basic rations. And life means life for the gang rapists and deliberate murderers of this world.

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

Criminals should be stripped of their human rights, and there should be no sympathy when one of them dies, just a sigh of relief that one less burden on society is stealing our oxygen.

A little extreme, maybe? There is a vast expanse of crimes to commit. To hold all criminals under the banner of "sub-human" is possibly a little daft.

[rubydazzler 11]

One interesting thing in terms of resources is that is has been calculated many times that the cost to the state of executing someone is higher than it is to imprison them for life.

 

I'd like to see how those figures are worked out. I can't quite believe that the cost of giving Brady a lethal injection would have been more expensive than the cost of his custody, keep and medical treatment all those years?

 

I agree that there should be no comfort, hard labour, basic rations. And life means life for the gang rapists and deliberate murderers of this world.

 

Funnily enough on another thread about the tent jail in Arizona or somewhere, someone made the point that the weather would be against it in UK. Yet servicemen and women lived in tin huts for years during WW2, so it could be done and it'd be a start.

 

rubydazzler in 'somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan' mode.

[fr8neck 10]

One interesting thing in terms of resources is that is has been calculated many times that the cost to the state of executing someone is higher than it is to imprison them for life. For a start, the burden of proof is higher (quite rightly) and so the judicial process is more drawn out. If you are concerned about resources, stick them in a skanky little jail and ignore them for the rest of their lives.

 

I agree that there should be no comfort, hard labour, basic rations. And life means life for the gang rapists and deliberate murderers of this world.

 

I'll chop off their heads at tuppence a go if you like.

 

 

Seriously: whenever the government cry- costs!,regarding things that they don't want to do: be very, very suspicious.

[Normon 10]

A little extreme, maybe? There is a vast expanse of crimes to commit. To hold all criminals under the banner of "sub-human" is possibly a little daft.

If they're bad enough to go to jail, they're bad enough to serve us better as compost.