Euro - Experts

[t020 11]

Originally posted by "alchresearch"

 

It seems that a lot of the voting public from less educated backgrounds can be won round easily enough by the "you won't have to bother changing your pounds when you go on holiday" argument. While I am all for a referendum, it bothers me that so many people like that exist and will quite happily be brainwashed by the government into voting 'yes' to the euro just on that basis. People need to be educated fully into the pros (the few that exist) and the cons (several!) of joining the euro. Not having to "change me bloody currency when we go to Spain" is hardly the basis on which to build our country's whole economic future.

 

Well said. The same also goes for those who say that the pound is our national identity and we can't scrap it because it's a part of our heritage. So were groats and farthings, we got rid of those.

 

Yes I agree. My biased viewpoint being against the Euro meant that I neglected this point, but this is the flip side of the coin. People on both sides of the fence should not use ridiculous, worthless arguments such as currency conversion on the pro-side, and national identity on the anti-side. Instead, people should be better informed about what it would actually mean to our country and how it would affect our economy. My points against the euro mainly revolve around the fact that we will lose control of our own economy, such as the way in which the Bank of England (or the government should they wish to retake control of interest rates) can currently tinker with interest rates in response to the economic climate of our country. If we joined the Euro, this would no longer be the case, and instead we'd just be a small cog in a big machine. If our economic climate dictated the need for lower interest rates, for example. we would only get those lower interest rates if it also suited the majority of the other countries in the Euro.

 

One point that certain members of government make, or at least imply, is that the voting public are not capable of making an educated vote in a referendum. What do they base this on? The fact that they have won 2 elections from this voting public?

[max 13]

I'm sorry t020 I can't agree that there is any implication that the public are not capable of making an educated vote in a referendum. As far as I can tell Blair & Brown have stated all along that there will be a referendum and that the public will choose. I think it's the press and assorted think tanks who go around saying the issue is too complicated for the outcome to be decided by us, the voters.

 

I'm quite enjoying this thread as, like you, I was prejudiced but I can now see that there are 2 sides to the argument. I'm now only about 85% in favour of the Euro but I'm biased because I've seen British industry decimated by the vagaries of the exchange rate. In particular the steel industry which relies on a stable base on which to make financial decisions.

 

I wish there more debates like this and to a wider audience, perhaps then the electorate would be more informed.

 

As I say, I'm not entirely convinced and it may even be by the time a referendum is held I may be persuaded the other way.

[halevan 11]

Yes, PRM. it will please Halevan and I suspect a lot more also.

[Lickszz 10]

<smallfont>Originally posted by halevan </smallfont>

What about now!!! I shall be dead in ten to 15 years!!!

 

 

 

I agree Halevan. Blair allows no meaningful debate on Europe...He is taking us in screaming.

 

Behind the scenes, day by day, he is offering concession after concession to his 'partners' we are being sold down the river.

 

Why people such as yourself and other senior people (by age) should have to shout and bawl on behalf of the younger element, I haven't a clue!

 

Just think, from your perch alongside thousands of suicide bombers in paradise, (not forgetting the virgins) you shall observe the eternal damnation Blair is being allowed to force upon everyone.

 

[Lickszz 10]

Originally posted by robh

We (Gordon Brown) already did that:

 

The fall in the euro has wrong-footed Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, who last May announced plans to sell more than half the country's reserves of gold and instructed the Bank of England to reinvest 40 per cent of the proceeds in euros. Mr Brown described the controversial plan as a sensible move aimed at diversifying the reserves. However, the euro's weakness has led to a direct loss of £34 million. Despite some offsetting gains on dollars and yen, the overall loss is still £26 million. (Telegraph 4/5/00)

 

And by announcing he was about to sell 415 tonnes of gold, of course the price (which had been rising) dropped (...immediately damaging effect on the gold price, which fell nearly $7 to $281.50 an ounce...) so he sole it cheap THEN spent the proceeds on Euros. Gold is currently around $355.

 

But what I still don't understand is why did he do this? There is a Conspiracy theory that there is political motives behind this which could involve the removing of a potential obstacle/argument against the Euro in a referendum. Has the Euro price recovered since we invested in them? If so then some may class it as a good move.

[waxy chuff 10]

Problem I have is that I see the sense in joining the single currency, but also the probs that go along with it. For example, as a trading bloc we'd rival the United States, and actually be able to force their hand on some issues - anyone remember the USA putting ridiculous tariffs on steel to protect their own industry? We could do the same.

 

The problems begin with the convergence criteria that we will need to meet to enter the single european currency. Add to the mix the loss of control of interest rates and we're pretty much out to dry - reliant on stability in unstable areas of Europe to ensure a solid trading base. Recession in Europe would undoubtedly cause recession in the UK.

[Lickszz 10]

A recent article indicated that the Government was considering allowing up to 750,000 European workers, now working in the UK the chance to vote in any referendum on the Euro. If correct this is ignominious conduct of the deepest dye, but par for the course where most New Labour politicians are concerned.

 

It could only be Blair's idea, or possibly Campbell's

 

My salary, perks, presidency and pension, right or wrong.

 

An honourable man would have resigned over the lies and deception of the WMD and the Kelly affair. Pity the man can't be impeached.

[max 13]

Originally posted by Lickszz

A recent article indicated that the Government was considering allowing up to 750,000 European workers, now working in the UK the chance to vote in any referendum on the Euro. If correct this is ignominious conduct of the deepest dye, but par for the course where most New Labour politicians are concerned.

 

It could only be Blair's idea, or possibly Campbell's

 

My salary, perks, presidency and pension, right or wrong.

 

An honourable man would have resigned over the lies and deception of the WMD and the Kelly affair. Pity the man can't be impeached.

 

Supply proof for what sounds like another Daily Mail scare story and I may be able to answer.

[Lickszz 10]

Originally posted by maxt

Supply proof for what sounds like another Daily Mail scare story and I may be able to answer.

 

Maxt. When you hear or see a news item on TV or in a newspaper, are you inclined to email them and ask their source of information?

 

You will accept my info on this as a word for word correct interpretation of a Telegraph news item, or publicly call me a liar...end of matter.

 

As for the authenticity of the news item, it does not rest with me. Take it up with The Telegraph. You can obviously make up your own mind whether you think this is true, I can actually believe it possible knowing how keen New Labour are to see a referendum passed. On the downside the Telegraph isn't known as the Tory Graph for nothing.

[max 13]

Originally posted by Lickszz

Maxt. When you hear or see a news item on TV or in a newspaper, are you inclined to email them and ask their source of information?

 

You will accept my info on this as a word for word correct interpretation of a Telegraph news item, or publicly call me a liar...end of matter.

 

As for the authenticity of the news item, it does not rest with me. Take it up with The Telegraph. You can obviously make up your own mind whether you think this is true, I can actually believe it possible knowing how keen New Labour are to see a referendum passed. On the downside the Telegraph isn't known as the Tory Graph for nothing.

 

Nobody is calling anybody a liar. So many threads on this forum have fizzled out when presented with facts that I thought I would see if that was the case with this one. If you say there was an article in the Daily T then so be it. I will try and trace the article and discover what's behind it.

 

You also have a strange view of the Labour Party, both Old & New, if you think that they all march to the same tune. The party is evenly split on the issue of the Euro and I'm not convinced that even Tony Blair has been swayed one way or the other as yet.

 

Why do you have a problem with people from other countries having a vote in any referendum? We operate under a democracy in this country and as we expect people to pay taxes then we quite rightly should ask them to have a say in anything that affects them. Foreign nationals can already vote in elections why not in referenda?

[Lickszz 10]

Originally posted by maxt

Nobody is calling anybody a liar. So many threads on this forum have fizzled out when presented with facts that I thought I would see if that was the case with this one. If you say there was an article in the Daily T then so be it. I will try and trace the article and discover what's behind it.

 

You also have a strange view of the Labour Party, both Old & New, if you think that they all march to the same tune. The party is evenly split on the issue of the Euro and I'm not convinced that even Tony Blair has been swayed one way or the other as yet.

 

Why do you have a problem with people from other countries having a vote in any referendum? We operate under a democracy in this country and as we expect people to pay taxes then we quite rightly should ask them to have a say in anything that affects them. Foreign nationals can already vote in elections why not in referenda?

 

Maxt, I am not going to address all of your points because you could be inadvertently leading me into a trap.

 

I can't agree on Blair not been decided one way or other. He wants that top job and is interested in feathering his own nest. The key positions in New Labour are held by cronies like Blunkett whom are clearly out of their depth.

[max 13]

Apolgies to Lickzy. Here is the article:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3123263.stm

 

As I read it this would be a double edged sword as many of our EU citizens are as ambivalent about the Euro as we.

 

Having said that, the article does point out that the idea is only being looked at, as is the idea of offering non-resident UK citizens the vote. Do you not think it would be remiss of any government to not look at these 2 issues?

 

Whatever is decided the government will be blamed for trying to sway the vote either way.

 

Giving non UK citizens the vote: many europeans are disillusioned with the euro and are likely to vote against our entry or are likely to vote in favour given the current weakness of the pound

 

Giving non-resident UK citizens the vote: they may use the opposite arguments that the weak euro would make joining the euro a bad thing.

 

Either way, whatever happens there will be somebody shouting foul.