Euro - Experts

[robh 10]

Before we have a common currency we need a common language, that is a far greater barrier to trade.

 

I'm finding the concept of the Anglosphere increasingly attractive - thats a loose union of the english speaking nations with whom we have much more in common than we do with most of the european countries - Canada, Australia, NZ, US (and debateably a few others like India).

[t020 11]

Originally posted by "robh"

 

Before we have a common currency we need a common language, that is a far greater barrier to trade.

 

I'm finding the concept of the Anglosphere increasingly attractive - thats a loose union of the english speaking nations with whom we have much more in common than we do with most of the european countries - Canada, Australia, NZ, US (and debateably a few others like India).

 

I agree. I'd much rather join the US, Australia and Canada rather than Europe. We have much more in common, both with the language and with our cultures.

[halevan 11]

What about now!!! I shall be dead in ten to 15 years!!!

[Phanerothyme 12]

Originally posted by "robh"

 

Before we have a common currency we need a common language, that is a far greater barrier to trade.

I'm genuinely interested why you think that is

 

I'm finding the concept of the Anglosphere increasingly attractive - thats a loose union of the english speaking nations with whom we have much more in common than we do with most of the european countries - Canada, Australia, NZ, US (and debateably a few others like India).

 

Yes, the anglosphere exists already - should the anglosphere have a common currency? You should include in the Anglosphere the whole commonwealth of nations, which will please Halevan no end, I expect.

[RPG 10]

what i want to know is what will happen to the commonwealth? will it too have to trade with Europe as opposed to the UK

[Andy 10]

The commonwealth isn't a trading group anyway. They could trade with whoever they wanted, like they do now.

[robh 10]

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

 

 

Yes, the anglosphere exists already - should the anglosphere have a common currency? You should include in the Anglosphere the whole commonwealth of nations, which will please Halevan no end, I expect.

 

To be frank I'm not all that happy with the concept of the more powerful nations getting together in trading cartels - the losers are, as always, the poor - in particular the poorer nations. Most of the articulated benefits for a unified europe are fundamentally superficial, self interested and economic. Someone will say that's an opinion, where's the substance behind it. Sorry there is such a lot to say I need a book not a bulletin board.

 

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

 

 

Yes, the anglosphere exists already

In a manner of speaking but for example as trade partners it's more to do with history and language than trade treaties. We had long-standing agricultural import ties with NZ when we joined - it was cheaper for us to ship lamb and butter half way round the world than to subsidise the ineffecient European farmers, that had to change, and I see no reason to think Europe will not continue to flex it's muscles in a manner "unhelpful" to those traditional ties.

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

 

should the anglosphere have a common currency?

To ape the politicians "I won't rule it out and I won't rule it in". Were there a broad acceptance of the logic of such a move, yes. If it was a political fix, no. And the same applies to the Euro. We shouldn't do it while many are vehemently opposed and the fixers are ready to ladle on the political spin with trivia (you won't have to change your money when you go on holiday) or pseudo facts (unemployment will be lower - prove it please, it's worse in the eurozone 8.3% compared with UK at 5.1%).

 

UK is like a married man (Wife = traditional trading partners) who has had a flirtation with a bimbo (Europe). The marriage is still good and strong, the wife is "a bit annoyed" but loyal. The husband is confused, he knows where his true loyalties lie. He knows that once the bimbo's won she'll move on the her next conquest but she offers temptation, forbidden fruit, he wants to resist but... The bimbo wants everything: ditch the wife and kids, marry me.

 

Just fancy that.

26/4/1975: A one-day conference held by the Labour Party to debate Britain's membership of Europe has voted by almost 2-1 to leave the European Economic Community.

[Lickszz 10]

At the present time there are 15 members of the E.C. currently there are 9 net contributors to the finances. These are Germany £5.9 bn. Holland £2.4 bn. Italy £1.8 bn. France £1.7 bn. U.K. £1.1 bn. Sweden £0.8 bn. Austria £0.4 bn. and Finland £0.1 bn. However our relatively decorous contribution is entirely due to the rebate famously acquired by Thatcher amounting to an average of £3.0 bn. If this rebate was witheld our net contribution would rise to £5.8 bn. making us the second largest contributor. Recently we saw in the news the clandestine agreement between Germany and France to put pressure upon us to forego this rebate by refusing to reform the wasteful agricultural policy where France is the biggest beneficiary. Now onto the plans for expansion of the E.C.

in 2004 the following countries will be swallowed up Czech Republic,Slovenia,Malta,Estonia,Latvia,Poland,Lithuania,Slovakia,Hungary and Cyprus. Nearly all if not all of these countries will be net recipients from the E.U.finances.

The gdp per capita figures are as follows E.U.£13900,Britain £14600,

Czech rep.£3420, Slovenia £6200, Malta £5700, Estonia £2405, Poland £2800, Latvia £2100, Lithuania £2100, Slovakia £2470, Hungary £3100, Cyprus £8990. So it is most unlikely that any of these new countries will be net contributors and will need considerable support from the net payers,is it any wonder that Germany and France are trying to claw back our rebate? But this may not be the worse problem for us. A strong argument being put by the pro-europeans is the security of jobs but is this likely, let us now look at some other figures ,the average wage figures which are on an annual basis .E.U.£18000(which includes the british average.)

czech rep.£4250,slovenia £7900,malta £7252,estonia £3950,latvia £2500,poland £4740,slovakia £3300,hungary £3820,lithuania £3020,cyprus £14000.the only country anywhere near the E.U.average seems to be Cyprus. How long will it take for the big and small producers to realise that by moving their production to these low paid areas much larger profits will be made? Even comparatively modest producers like Matthews and Dyson have already done this so when will the big boys follow suit and will they continue to keep their expensive production lines in the U.K. open? these are questions we should all ponder very carefully and right now before any move to adopt the Euro be made.

 

Trouble is that the experience in Euro countries is that retailers (and councils, and government) have all jumped on the bandwagon and increased their prices, and not just by a copper or two. Some reports state that 50% is not unusual e.g. Germany, where retailers changed the Mark signs to Euro signs without altering the figures, and no dual pricing. resulting in prices doubling. The answer would appear to be 'don't buy it' but if it is a loaf of bread and everyone has done it, there is not much choice. I recently read that a majority of Germans in opinions polls would like to return to the Mark. Why do we think that is? Alot of people tend to believe anything that spews out of a politicians mouth, Bliar gave a speech in 1983 where is famously said that Britain must remain free and independant from Europe. Funny how a change in jobs can mean a change of opinion!

 

In The Times Lord Marshall, chairman of pro-euro lobby group Britain in Europe, said that Mr Brown’s recent statement meant that Britain was “firmly on course for a referendum”.

 

Is this the same Lord Marshall who tried to convince us that BA is the World's favourite airline? Also the same man who stated that cheap flights would never catch on and that Ryanair and Easyjet would be a five minute wonder?

The same man who drove the share price down faster than the costs of the business?

 

Good to know his opinions are so highly valued.

 

Corruption is widespread within Europe - Edith Cresson a few years back appointed her dentist to be her paid special advisor on AIDS. The Spanish commissioner when asked what Spain had done with a £2B grant for agriculture had not the faintest idea.

The increasing legal controls are so ludicrous: English wine, made in place like Kent, must now be labelled U.K. wine is just the lastest barmy idea.

We have no say in any of these regulations.

The EU is steadily becoming the most bureaucratic country in the world. Regulations stream out of Brussells at a steady rate and we have to accept them. Legally, any country in the EU can now send out an arrest warrant for you regardless of whether you have committed a crime and the police will then have to arrest you and deport you to that country without any guarantee when they will release you.

 

Finally if we do go into the EU, expect massive price increases, expect serious tax increases as the EU "harmonises taxes" which are higher in Europe than here. But do not expect any improvement in NHS services to match France! That will remain under our enfeebled governments control.

 

Incidently, has anyone noticed how 454.5g has diappeared and been replaced by 400g in supermarkets but has the price fallen to follow suit?

 

Another worrying thing is that it's been reported that some countries will not accept the Euro from other countries, they have to be from their own country. If this is the case it obviously this needs addressing urgently.

 

The whole point of this single currency is to eliminate exchange rates and to have ONE currency for europe, but if you have to run around exchanging Irish Euro's for French Euro's, whats the point?

 

The only thing this Euro business will achieve is to clearout all of the UK's gold reserves and deposit them in another country, and we will STILL have to exchange the blasted currency anyway.

 

I wish I could print my own currency instead of using the Euro. I'd just have to get my Lickszz note accepted a few places and then there I go.

[t020 11]

All good points Lickszz.

 

It seems that a lot of the voting public from less educated backgrounds can be won round easily enough by the "you won't have to bother changing your pounds when you go on holiday" argument. While I am all for a referendum, it bothers me that so many people like that exist and will quite happily be brainwashed by the government into voting 'yes' to the euro just on that basis. People need to be educated fully into the pros (the few that exist) and the cons (several!) of joining the euro. Not having to "change me bloody currency when we go to Spain" is hardly the basis on which to build our country's whole economic future.

[halevan 11]

TO20: I agree with you totally, the common market is a very attractive proposition to all these poorer countries in Europe,as it will give them security and financial prosperity at our expense.

[alchresearch 215]

Originally posted by "t020"

 

It seems that a lot of the voting public from less educated backgrounds can be won round easily enough by the "you won't have to bother changing your pounds when you go on holiday" argument. While I am all for a referendum, it bothers me that so many people like that exist and will quite happily be brainwashed by the government into voting 'yes' to the euro just on that basis. People need to be educated fully into the pros (the few that exist) and the cons (several!) of joining the euro. Not having to "change me bloody currency when we go to Spain" is hardly the basis on which to build our country's whole economic future.

 

Well said. The same also goes for those who say that the pound is our national identity and we can't scrap it because it's a part of our heritage. So were groats and farthings, we got rid of those.

[robh 10]

Originally posted by "Lickszz"

 

 

The only thing this Euro business will achieve is to clearout all of the UK's gold reserves and deposit them in another country, and we will STILL have to exchange the blasted currency anyway.

 

We (Gordon Brown) already did that:

 

The fall in the euro has wrong-footed Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, who last May announced plans to sell more than half the country's reserves of gold and instructed the Bank of England to reinvest 40 per cent of the proceeds in euros. Mr Brown described the controversial plan as a sensible move aimed at diversifying the reserves. However, the euro's weakness has led to a direct loss of £34 million. Despite some offsetting gains on dollars and yen, the overall loss is still £26 million. (Telegraph 4/5/00)

 

And by announcing he was about to sell 415 tonnes of gold, of course the price (which had been rising) dropped (...immediately damaging effect on the gold price, which fell nearly $7 to $281.50 an ounce...) so he sole it cheap THEN spent the proceeds on Euros. Gold is currently around $355.