'Submission' in Dogs

[marmite]

Hi

We've had our dog about 3 and a bit years now, and i understand the 'submission' roll, but what exactly does it mean.

If a dog rolls over and lifts a leg, does that mean 'Im scared, leave me alone '

'Gizza tickle '

or

'Stop annoying me'

..or anything else.

 

I know the obvious ones, such as if the dog eats some pie and your mouthing off to it, then they sort of 'cower' like they might do in a storm (tail tucked away)

 

Its always fasinated me, but ive never understood the body language.

 

Ta if anyone comes up with anything, its a bit of a random question.

[Strix]

You need to read your own dog

 

Brude doesn't do rolling for a tummy tickle - he 'begs'

 

Some dogs also use the roll as 'bait' - then you get bitten

[Tony]

Some dogs also use the roll as 'bait' - then you get bitten

.. and kicked.

I've got a cat like that. Little begger!

[Lotti]

Hi marmite,

 

Like Strix says you need to read your own dog.

 

Aargh how many times have I tried to word this right... lol

 

The rollover isn't all that submissive to be honest. A dog will rarely roll over if he feels genuinely threatened. He will roll over to say 'I feel comfortable with you and won't hurt you', but not to prevent an attack.

 

This is because the rollover requires revealing his tummy and throat to the other dog, or person. These areas are the most delicate and can kill a dog easily if bitten there so he will only show these areas if he feels comfortable with you.

 

However, it is often used by the submissive of two dogs during play - but again he's saying 'I'm comfortable with you' - not 'please don't hurt me'.

 

If your dog rolls over and lays his head back against the floor, he's probably very relaxed and wants his tummy tickling - he's showing you his throat - meaning he's comfortable with you.

If he rolls over and keeps his chin to his chest - as Takara often does, it means he'll probably bite/mouth you when you go near him.

I try not to tickle Takara's tummy if she's not got her head back because she is protecting her throat - therefore saying she's not giving into me, and is ready to grab my hand.

 

If a dog feels genuinely threatened, it's more likely he'll turn his face away from the dog or person he feels threatened by to prevent making eye contact which is seen as threatening behaviour and could start a fight. He will rarely show his tummy and throat to a dog he thinks may attack as he knows he'll be seriously hurt.

 

However - you have to read your dog. I won't be held responsible for any bites you get trying to tickle your dogs tummy

 

Also, in play - a dominant dog will put his paw over the other dog's back whilst the other will roll over, mine take it in turns to be dominant so if you play with your dog like I do, on your hands and knees your dog may try to get his head under your neck and nuzzle into your chest, make sure never to put your head below your dogs head as many people do, because this will make him think that you are saying he's a higher rank than you.

 

Does this help - hope so, took me ages to word it right

[Elsa]

If you’re really interested in dog body language. Try “How to Speak Dog” by Stanley Coren. It’s a little on the dry and dusty side in places, but there’s very interesting research in there on dogs and primates and cats and it debates whether dogs have a language or not. There are drawings to demonstrate different aspects of dog body language and what the different vocalisations mean, together with different postures and tail and ear positions. And at the end, a doggy phrasebook! I wouldn't take it all as gospel, but I certainly enjoyed the book.

 

One bit that I found interesting is the section on how dog and cat body language can have completely opposite meanings. The rolling onto their backs one is a classic example. A dog will roll to show the other dog he isn’t a threat and to “give up”. The socially correct thing for the winning dog to do is to walk up and sniff the one on the ground. This happens a lot in play fights, but I've also witnessed it in more serious altercations between my two when Gypsy got a bit too boisterous, and Elsa put her in her place. Having 2 dogs teaches you LOADS about dog body language.

 

When cats roll on their backs, they are freeing up their 4 best weapons… their claws! As many a dog has discovered too late!

 

The most misread signal is a wagging tail. This does not necessarily mean “I’m your friend”. It all depends on the position, speed of the wag and the other signals as a whole. Don’t assume a dog that’s barking at you and wagging its tail won’t bite. It might be excited to see you. It might be excited at the thought of having a piece of you!!!

 

Also good is Turid Rugaas - On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals. Dogs display calming signals all the time. To calm themselves down, to calm you down, to calm other dogs down and show they’re not a threat. Most people don’t notice them.

 

I now realise that Elsa was a master at them. My favourite photo of her is where she looks like she’s laughing. I now know it’s a classic calming signal. She was concerned at a camera being pointed at her.

 

Eye narrowing, head turns, flicks of the tongue, yawns, sniffing the ground. All there for you to read. The dog is a master at body language. It’s unfortunate that humans tend to be very unaware of what their bodies are doing at any given moment! We must be very confusing to our dogs, but they love us anyway!

 

You can put calming signals onto command if your dog doesn’t use them. Eventually, he will start using them himself. Turid talks of a really aggressive dog she took on that she thought there was no hope for. She became one of her leading therapy dogs in other aggression cases. A wonderful success story.

 

Apparently, you can also do them to your dog to show them that they don’t have to be scared. Can’t say this has exactly worked for me, and I feel a little silly standing in the woods yawning and blinking at my dog to try and get her to ignore the bang she heard and keep walking. But the theory sounds great!

[marmite]

Thanks everyone, we do have a book it just never made sense.

Thanks Lottie, I understand what you mean...dogs are just too subtle!

[komal]

my cat only rolls on his back when he wants to play then i rub his belly and he'll grab me and bite! and then do some kind of fit/dance on his back thing which is weird so i leave him alone

[Lotti]

Thanks everyone, we do have a book it just never made sense.

Thanks Lottie, I understand what you mean...dogs are just too subtle!

 

marmite, have you ever actually been bitten when trying to rub your dogs tummy If not, I suspect you understand what your dog's telling you, but it comes so naturally that you don't realise because you don't have to think about it and analyse it

 

Books can only offer you the text book answers, every dog is different and you learn to read your own dog, which I'm sure you already do.

[Lotti]

my cat only rolls on his back when he wants to play then i rub his belly and he'll grab me and bite! and then do some kind of fit/dance on his back thing which is weird so i leave him alone

 

Cats are a whole different kettle of fish Hardly anything similar at all in the body language of a cat and dog, that's why they don't usually get on -although sometimes they do obviously-

 

One of my dogs will stand and bark at my cats and play bow and all sorts, the cats think that she wants to hurt them by this 'threatening behaviour' - as it is in cats.

So the cat hisses at the dog The dog thinks this is the cat joining in with the noise and wanting to play. So the dog winds her up getting her to play.

 

So the cat runs away from the dog which she is convinced is going to hurt her. The dog sees this as the cat playing because that's how packs of dog play - they run away from eachother getting the other to chase. So she chases the cat who now thinks the dog wants to catch her and kill her because that's what a cat does when it chases something...

 

As you can imagine our house is utter chaos

[sooz22]

The head placement thing dogs do is the same as rabbits though. The dominant one will have his chin resting on the head of the submissive one. If a rabbit headbutts your hand while you are stroking his head it means he is trying to establish control over you. In this scenario you should put your hand over his head and push it gently but firmly to the floor and hold it for a few seconds to remind him your the boss not him.

 

If you let a rabbit believe he is the alpha creature then you set yourself up for all types of behavioural problems so this has to be established early and asserted regularly.