Should Ian Huntley receive legal aid?

[ducatiboy 10]

And you're going to use that as an argument to kill him? How, exactly?

 

 

 

What distinguishes us from savages and beasts - at least, what we like to think distinguishes us from savages and beasts - is that we have certain moral standards. If we're going to abandon those standards when we deal with a savage beast like Huntley, then we have no right to the distinction. We'd be no better than he is, we'd just be more carefully picking our targets to retain public support.

ahh selective vision i believe you suffer from! i do think i said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth shortly after! Moral standards? Hmmmmmmm let me see ......where are the morals in killing 2 little girls? No cant quite get it, ill have a think and let you know. Thank god for people like you and halibut. If it wasnt for people like you we would have less paedophiles and murderers on the streets and there wouldnt be any room for council tax evaders and people who dont pay their tv licence in prison your all doing a fine job let me be the first to congratulate you all WELL DONE! ps AMERICA, SAUDI ARABIA AND ALL THE COUNTRIES WITH THE DEATH PENALTY YOUR WRONG! YOUR SAVAGES OK!

[ducatiboy 10]

Well put heyesey, but I have come to the conclusion that we will never talk round the "hang em" brigade on morals, but notice that they never say "We accept it would be OK to execute the odd innocent"? They always duck the issue of executing the wrong person

 

What would be an acceptable mis-execute rate?

 

1%.......2%.... 5%???

Mr Goose is there any doubt huntley did it?

[byevilroot 10]

Byevilroot you can't describe the murders as 'unfair' in the extreme !!! It was downright evil. It also amazes me that you think there could be a fair sentence for the murders - NOTHING about it is fair!! I know you want to be all 'lets do the right thing' about it - but don't use the word fair - it makes a mockery of the situation

 

Sorry but I think that any murder can be described as extremely unfair. I don't think you understand what I'm saying and i was trying to get the point across that we shouldn't behave like criminals ourselves i.e. we should be fair.

 

regarding the sentence: it's what the courts have decided is fair and proportionate to the crime. This is exactly the judges job i.e. to guage the seriousness of a crime and punish accordingly. I'm afraid that I agree with the Britsh legal system that effective life imprisionment (which is what IH has got) is a completely fair punishment for a double murder of two children. The only extras you can ask for is either violent punishment or the death penalty. I believe in neither for any crime.

 

If you think differently, maybe you should become a judge or vote for a party that would introduce the death penalty but don't have go at me for agreeing with a sentence passed by a judge who has heard the whole case and knows a lot more about it than you or I.

 

Again, I want to make it clear that I am digusted by any violent crime but again I think it is sad I have to do so as it should be obvious, Shoegirl has tried to make out that I am not outraged enough about the crimes and that I don't think they were evil. Shame on shoegirl.

[ducatiboy 10]

Sorry but I think that any murder can be described as extremely unfair. I don't think you understand what I'm saying and i was trying to get the point across that we shouldn't behave like criminals ourselves i.e. we should be fair.

 

regarding the sentence: it's what the courts have decided is fair and proportionate to the crime. This is exactly the judges job i.e. to guage the seriousness of a crime and punish accordingly. I'm afraid that I agree with the Britsh legal system that effective life imprisionment (which is what IH has got) is a completely fair punishment for a double murder of two children. The only extras you can ask for is either violent punishment or the death penalty. I believe in neither for any crime.

 

If you think differently, maybe you should become a judge or vote for a party that would introduce the death penalty but don't have go at me for agreeing with a sentence passed by a judge who has heard the whole case and knows a lot more about it than you or I.

 

Again, I want to make it clear that I am digusted by any violent crime but again I think it is sad I have to do so as it should be obvious, Shoegirl has tried to make out that I am not outraged enough about the crimes and that I don't think they were evil. Shame on shoegirl.

A judge can only give the maximum sentence he/she is allowed to give in british law it doesnt necessarily mean that he/she didnt want to see IH strung up or electrocuted or maybe both. shame on shoegirl? Shame on you byevilroot. If something like this happened to your loved ones i want to see a post on here from you giving your lefty view! i pray it doesnt however you will change your tune and so would all the do gooders on this forum!!!

[byevilroot 10]

No one here has said that IH punishment is too harsh, the only difference of opinion is whether IH should have additional punishments other than his detention. i.e. torture, death, removal of other rights including the right to legal aid and basic human rights.

[byevilroot 10]

A judge can only give the maximum sentence he/she is allowed to give in british law it doesnt necessarily mean that he/she didnt want to see IH strung up or electrocuted or maybe both. shame on shoegirl? Shame on you byevilroot. If something like this happened to your loved ones i want to see a post on here from you giving your lefty view! i pray it doesnt however you will change your tune and so would all the do gooders on this forum!!!

 

Again, I trust british law over your opinion.

 

If you feel so strongly about it, you should petition the govt. to bring in the death penality. You can do it on the Downing Street website.

 

IH is never going to be let back into the public. Which is the priority here. Execution means another family will lose a member and causes more suffering.

 

It may make you feel better to see IH dead but what about his family who have done nothing?

 

You seem unaware of the consequences of what you want to see.

 

I totally agree that IH crimes were disgusting and beyond comprehension for anyone normal but I believe anything more than the life imprisionment is bad for society as a whole. Make no mistake, is currently in the worst situation for someone to be in, never being free again and constantly reminded of the murders he commited.

 

was it you quoting the bible before? an eye for an eye and all that? if you're trying to say that this is the view of God then your completely wrong, as christianity actually teaches forgiveness. I suggest you go back to your bible before you write more rubbish, claiming it as the word of god.

[ducatiboy 10]

Again, I trust british law over your opinion.

 

If you feel so strongly about it, you should petition the govt. to bring in the death penality. You can do it on the Downing Street website.

 

IH is never going to be let back into the public. Which is the priority here. Execution means another family will lose a member and causes more suffering.

 

It may make you feel better to see IH dead but what about his family who have done nothing?

 

You seem unaware of the consequences of what you want to see.

 

I totally agree that IH crimes were disgusting and beyond comprehension for anyone normal but I believe anything more than the life imprisionment is bad for society as a whole. Make no mistake, is currently in the worst situation for someone to be in, never being free again and constantly reminded of the murders he commited.

 

was it you quoting the bible before? an eye for an eye and all that? if you're trying to say that this is the view of God then your completely wrong, as christianity actually teaches forgiveness. I suggest you go back to your bible before you write more rubbish, claiming it as the word of god.

Well lets look at it from another point of view. If there was a death penalty then would you not consider that as a massive deterrant, for example if i were a crazed sexual pervert/killer and i needed to satisfy my "desires" if it meant a long stretch with ronnie barker, or the chance of having my head chopped off ....... I think id take a stretch wi ronnie! My description may seem a little light hearted, however I may not make such rash a decision, using the phrase "if my life depended on it." If i was related to IH and my second name was also his I think i may change it. If someone in my family were to do such a thing I for one would expect the full weight of the law to be used and if the death penalty was available and given then so be it. We are all responsible adults and every action has an equal and opposite reaction (I believe that wasnt god it was Einstein) As for quoting from the bible I dont know whether god said it, was a little before my time but i do agree with it. Christianity does teach forgiveness. Once again I challenge you if you were the victims relative then FORGIVE! ........Im sure you wouldnt though because you are human as we all are. You would be screaming for the death penalty. So what I write is not rubbish and from reading this thread everyone who has commented except 3 of you, have all pretty much said the same things. So it is you who writes rubbish!

[byevilroot 10]

I doesn't matter whether you believe in forgiveness, I just quoted that to show the stupidity of your comment, making out like it was the word of god.

 

I believe that life imprisionment is a fair punishment.

 

Again, I'll trust the opinion of criminologists over your rantings as to whether the death penality is a deterrent. Someone that commits murder thinks they will never be caught so it doesn't matter. It doesn't work in the US.

 

And as for all those worrying about their taxes, it actually costs more to execute. Most of these costs occur at trial level to make sure they are def. guilty. So replies along the lines of just chop their heads off aren't really worth writing.

 

If you check the poll in the death penality thread, I think it's slightly infavour of NO. It just shows that ppl you want death always shout louder than those who don't.

 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

 

Ducatiboy, please just don't rant on it makes it very hard to read

[shoegirl 10]

Sorry but I think that any murder can be described as extremely unfair. I don't think you understand what I'm saying and i was trying to get the point across that we shouldn't behave like criminals ourselves i.e. we should be fair.

 

regarding the sentence: it's what the courts have decided is fair and proportionate to the crime. This is exactly the judges job i.e. to guage the seriousness of a crime and punish accordingly. I'm afraid that I agree with the Britsh legal system that effective life imprisionment (which is what IH has got) is a completely fair punishment for a double murder of two children. The only extras you can ask for is either violent punishment or the death penalty. I believe in neither for any crime.

 

If you think differently, maybe you should become a judge or vote for a party that would introduce the death penalty but don't have go at me for agreeing with a sentence passed by a judge who has heard the whole case and knows a lot more about it than you or I.

 

Again, I want to make it clear that I am digusted by any violent crime but again I think it is sad I have to do so as it should be obvious, Shoegirl has tried to make out that I am not outraged enough about the crimes and that I don't think they were evil. Shame on shoegirl.

 

 

My point was lets not use the word fair in any of these replies, to me it sounds so blaze, sorry if you take that offensively but I am amazed that you use that word - as I said nothing about it is fair, IH isn't getting his 'fair' punishment for the crime he is getting what he deserves. I never said I believed in the death penalty and I think you have gone on a childish rant at me. Maybe you use the word fair where i use the word deserve and maybe we mean the same thing.

 

So no not 'no shame on you shoegirl' I think you need to calm yourself. Had you replied to me without the last paragraph we might have understood each others thoughts better now you seem childish.

 

With regard to the posts on here I might not agree with all the comments but I certainly understand why they think this. I just hope that Holly and Jessica are resting in peace now and sometimes I wonder if we keep bringing them up can they really do this.

[byevilroot 10]

fair means deserving, you took it the wrong way.

[ducatiboy 10]

I doesn't matter whether you believe in forgiveness, I just quoted that to show the stupidity of your comment, making out like it was the word of god.

 

I believe that life imprisionment is a fair punishment.

 

Again, I'll trust the opinion of criminologists over your rantings as to whether the death penality is a deterrent. Someone that commits murder thinks they will never be caught so it doesn't matter. It doesn't work in the US.

 

And as for all those worrying about their taxes, it actually costs more to execute. Most of these costs occur at trial level to make sure they are def. guilty. So replies along the lines of just chop their heads off aren't really worth writing.

 

If you check the poll in the death penality thread, I think it's slightly infavour of NO. It just shows that ppl you want death always shout louder than those who don't.

 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

 

Ducatiboy, please just don't rant on it makes it very hard to read

Actually i was reading another thread earlier along similar lines as this one regarding death penalty. Many more were asking for it for someone who stole a car and killed someone. One remark was similar to yours regarding the death penalty. Someone replied that since America (savages that they are:hihi: ) have had the 3 strikes n out policy places like the bronx etc have not only cleaned up but have a very good reputation now! However places like Moss side and forest fields (notts) and other areas now have a higher violent crime death rate. The difference mmmmmmm let me see ah thats it The electric chair! it was on the tip of my tongue. You havent answered any of my questions and havent given sufficient argument againstany of what i have said mr beaveroot. Oh and i dont rant i leave that for you!

[Heyesey 11]

Well lets look at it from another point of view. If there was a death penalty then would you not consider that as a massive deterrant

 

Considering we have enormous amounts of proof that it is not a deterrent, then no, I wouldn't.

 

We are all responsible adults and every action has an equal and opposite reaction (I believe that wasnt god it was Einstein)

 

It was Newton, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. It relates to physical forces, not human emotions.

 

As for quoting from the bible I dont know whether god said it, was a little before my time but i do agree with it.

 

Which bit do you agree with? The bit where it says certain people should be put to death, or the bit where it says that nobody should ever be put to death?

 

Christianity does teach forgiveness. Once again I challenge you if you were the victims relative then FORGIVE! ........Im sure you wouldnt though because you are human as we all are. You would be screaming for the death penalty.

 

You should talk to the relatives of the Omagh bombing victims who actually have forgiven. That, again, would prove you wrong in a heartbeat.