Surestart seem to have misplaced Christmas

[scoop 10]

If you feel your beliefs are so important, you are free to go to Church on Christamas Day. As has been covered before, things like Father Christmas, mistletoe, trees etc are nothing to do with Christianity.

 

If you read previous threads thoroughly you'll see that this argument has been covered. Many of those who wish to celebrate christmas in a traditional manner are not christians. They are simply people who appreciate being involved in the traditions and culture of the country.

[JoeP 11]

Come on folks, calm down.

 

There is a certain irony in verbal fisticuffs on a thread about Christmas.

[Zebra 10]

Yes I'm well aware I can go to church - thankyou.

Christmas is not only celebrated in church, it's celebrated in public, in homes, in offices, playgroups, schools and any other place where Christians or celebrants of Christmas gather.

Trees, mistletoe, Father Christmas, crackers, turkeys, carols, wreaths, cards, decorations and all the other modern associations are now inextricably tied with the current understanding of Christmas and Christianity.

How can I make this clear, the Uk's understanding and practice of celebrating Christmas has evolved. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference who goes to church or not, the majority of people in the UK observe Christmas in one form or another. They eat Christmas cake and sing Christmas carols, they give Christmas presents and have Christmas holidays, they attend Christmas parties and wish one another a Merry Christmas.

Just because it isn't celebrated in the same way as it used to be doesn't mean it doesn't have any value in the current society.

Christmas as it is, is just fine, and the government and the rest of the PC brigade can stick their homogenisation where the sun doesn't shine.

The historical practice of Christmas is irrelevent to this thread, what is important is that the government are near enough trying to abolish Christmas.

Please try to understand my point and re read the thread from the beginning.

It is the here and now which I'm concerned about.

 

Sorry Joe - had been typing this in the time you had posted your thread. I feel very passionately about this and feel my point is being buried in irrelevent comments.

It may go into national newspapers tomorrow - not sure yet.

[Code13 10]

"If you read previous threads thoroughly you'll see that this argument has been covered. Many of those who wish to celebrate christmas in a traditional manner are not christians. They are simply people who appreciate being involved in the traditions and culture of the country."

 

I was replying to a specific posting which included phrases such as "we have importance in our beliefs".

[Code13 10]

"it's celebrated in public, in homes, in offices, playgroups, schools and any other place where Christians or celebrants of Christmas gather.

Trees, mistletoe, Father Christmas, crackers, turkeys, carols, wreaths, cards, decorations and all the other modern associations are now inextricably tied with the current understanding of Christmas and Christianity."

 

As its celebrated in all these places, why get so angry about one place choosing to call something a winter celebration. Maybe some White British Jehovah's Witnesses might have preferred that, who knows? Maybe it was Humanists who might complain, who knows?

[Zebra 10]

None of the other groups actually seem to give two hoots that some of us still want to celebrate.

It isn't a winter celebration and none understands it to be a celebration of winter at all, as previously stated, it's an ill thought through move to appear PC, just in case another religion might be upset.

It isn't just one place, more and more places, councils and government led organisations are doing this and it needs to stop before Christmas disappears into mythology or prejudiced practice.

Please stop this constant pretence at misunderstanding my whole objection, I've made myself very clear and you are really just baiting.

I take part in the modern understanding of Christmas personally.

[JoeP 11]

"If you read previous threads thoroughly you'll see that this argument has been covered. Many of those who wish to celebrate christmas in a traditional manner are not christians. They are simply people who appreciate being involved in the traditions and culture of the country."

 

I was replying to a specific posting which included phrases such as "we have importance in our beliefs".

 

OK - let's walk away and leave it alone, please.

 

As I've already said, the irony of an argument on a thread about Christmas doesn't escape me, and it would be nice to not make it personal.

[Titian 10]

I hate to play devils advocate on this but, Christmas is a Christian celebration and as someone has rightly pointed out it has little to do with trees, tinsel and coca cola (thats a northern europe influence at it's roots).

 

In fact "Christmas celebrations" would be wrong anyway as it would be Advent celebrations until the 24th.

 

I may be a Christian or I may not be but I do have a culture that I belong to. That culture is one that is changing and evolving so "winter celebrations" does not offend me and certainly not to the point that I would exclude my children from events listed in this way.

 

Now, if you are a devout Christian I can understand your crusade but even then I would challenge your fight for a word that would be out of context at this time of year...this time being advent (coming of light).

 

I think sure start have done what they can to be inclusive and I see it as that, nothing more. There are a number of faiths in this country and in Sheffield a lot of which have practicing members who have, in the past, probably had to accept the fact that sure start called their festivities Christmas celebrations even though their own festivals ran along side.

 

 

Peace and goodwill to all men

[Code13 10]

The fact is, if we look at the winter soltice/secular tradition type Christmas, we are utterly bombarded with Christmas decorations, Christmas adverts, Christmas music in shops, Christmas specials on TV etc, for months. So I really can't see why it is such an issue that a surestart group doesn't use the term. I really don't see that "traditional" Christmas is in danger at all.

[Zebra 10]

Well I do, hence the start of the thread, I would also guess that quite a lot of other people agree because of the interest from the media.

But if you don't think so then you don't need to agree.

[Code13 10]

Oh so you only ever reply to threads if you agree with the initial poster?

[Zebra 10]

Where did that come from? That's just random.

I said you don't need to agree ie you are entitled to your opinion, just as much as I am but you said you can't see why it's such an issue. I can, You can't. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am mine.

Is that clear enough now?