The Aftermath of the War

[sheffco 10]

Hello

 

After the varied answers to "The War In Iraq"

I have been reasonably quiet. I don't think there is a need to find a "smoking gun", - - It's a big desert to hide a few drums in. - - The rockets were there and the shells were found Nuf said in my book - I've been there!

America's base in the middle east has been established, and they have already started to apply pressure on Syria, Saudi, and Iran.

France, Germany and Russia have already started bleating about "possible admission" into reconstruction.

I think that this is all a logical product of a political "Think Tank" - I put up these theories on previous posts.

I am more worried about Tony Blair waxing evangelical - Believe Me, I am the prophet - Trust me, I am the Prime Minister. His cronies are falling off the political wagon at an alarming rate, meanwhile, we have lifestyle guru's, and other influences, like gay loving bishops.

Tony's speeches get more and more evangelical, with the fervour of the gospel showing in his eyes - Believe me because I am the life, and the destruction of all that is British - The European Reich shall last for a thousand years.

Architectured by Des Taing (Miss the G) Backed up by the Germans who failed last time, and hoping for the votes of the begging nations about to join we will really be the poor relations of Europe.

Voted down on all that does not benefit the agriculutral wasters and subsidy takers.

Why can't we have a referendum?

Are we all inferior and unable to have a say in the future of Britain?

Is Tony a fascist?

Police state seems to be his way of controling the nation - Cameras with no appeal - decision makers in social services - red tape and confusing letters in appeal cases.

He has more confusion in Britain than there is in Iraq.

 

Signed

Confused.

[halevan 11]

What are you saying? buggered if I know!

[t020 11]

A lot of people voted labour in 1997 and as a result Blair has a massive parliamentary majority. Unless this is either significantly reduced or the Tories get in at the next election, Blair will be even more power hungry. Maybe this is why the US has a 2 term maximum stay for the president. Blair will continue to do what he wants while hes in power sitting on a massive majority, and at the moment that looks like signing us off to Europe without our permission. I didn't vote labour last time round and I certainly won't be in 2005.

[Phanerothyme 12]

Originally posted by "sheffco"

 

Hello

 

After the varied answers to "The War In Iraq"

I have been reasonably quiet. I don't think there is a need to find a "smoking gun", - - It's a big desert to hide a few drums in. - - The rockets were there and the shells were found Nuf said in my book - I've been there!

America's base in the middle east has been established, and they have already started to apply pressure on Syria, Saudi, and Iran.

France, Germany and Russia have already started bleating about "possible admission" into reconstruction.

I think that this is all a logical product of a political "Think Tank" - I put up these theories on previous posts.

I am more worried about Tony Blair waxing evangelical - Believe Me, I am the prophet - Trust me, I am the Prime Minister. His cronies are falling off the political wagon at an alarming rate, meanwhile, we have lifestyle guru's, and other influences, like gay loving bishops.

Tony's speeches get more and more evangelical, with the fervour of the gospel showing in his eyes - Believe me because I am the life, and the destruction of all that is British - The European Reich shall last for a thousand years.

Architectured by Des Taing (Miss the G) Backed up by the Germans who failed last time, and hoping for the votes of the begging nations about to join we will really be the poor relations of Europe.

Voted down on all that does not benefit the agriculutral wasters and subsidy takers.

Why can't we have a referendum?

Are we all inferior and unable to have a say in the future of Britain?

Is Tony a fascist?

Police state seems to be his way of controling the nation - Cameras with no appeal - decision makers in social services - red tape and confusing letters in appeal cases.

He has more confusion in Britain than there is in Iraq.

 

Signed

Confused.

There is no war in Iraq, it's over I think. So I have stopped reading that forum completely.

[rant]

OK - War in Iraq?

 

Outcome so far - near chaos. less government oppression, freedom of expression, action and agression.

Outlook for near future - no change

Outlook Long Term - uncertain

 

WMD

None found. Not looking for a few drums, looking for evidence of "a prolonged and ... well organized chemical weapons programme" including industrial manufacturing and actual warheads. Ready to go in 45 mins is what the Prime Minister concurred with and endorsed.

 

Tony Blair:"certain they will be found"

Rumsfeld:"destroyed at commencement of war", "may never be found"

 

This from the alliance that can peer in close detail at every inch of iraq in all frequencies from xray to infrared. and has been doing so, certainly for the last twelve months, if not continously since 1991 and the no fly zones.

 

 

They may yet be found of course, and one shouldn't expect one big result or anything for a month or two. Of course, UN weapons inspectors can still legitimately operate under the auspices of the Security Council, but are effectively barred from doing so by the Alliance. I have to say I'm sceptical any significant finds will be made and eventually we will conveniently forget as we move on to the next audacious project from PNAC (http://www.newamericancentury.org/).

 

Now Tony Blair has seen images of himself being kissed by a young iraqi boy plastered accross a billion screens worldwide, at least, and is getting tipsier by the minute on the heady atmosphere of the international stage. Tortured Metaphor, Sorry.

 

Taking on the Euro is a huge issue, and so far the debate has been quite unedifying thanks in no small part to Mr Tony Blair being so besotted with international power that he's almost forgotten about the UK. He's out next time, and I suspect it will happen whilst Labour are still in power. He should quit while he's just ahead.

 

This war is going to hit the balance sheet in dribs and drabs, but rest assured we will be paying for it.

 

What has driven me to anger and protest at this whole affair has not wholly been the legal, moral and humanitarian considerations, but the clear and utter dishonesty of motives, an utter lack of preparedness to deal with the aftermath and a total failiure of our elected leaders to come up with a slightly more creative way of exerting their will upon the world than breaking out the cluster bombs and flechette rounds.

 

Not to mention the B52 strategic bombers and Tomahawk cruise missiles.

 

I understand the British bought some more Tomahawks from the US especially for this conflict. How exciting.

 

And to my mind I have certainly seen a glint in the eye of Geoff Hoon, Tony Blair and George Bush as they have come to recognise the vast and unimaginable power they command.

 

Unleashing the combined might of several hundred billion pounds worth of advanced military hardware against a broken nation with no airforce or navy and an unwilling conscript army is clearly a very effective ego booster. We should all try it sometime.[/rant]

 

obviously I haven't touched on how this has affected terrorism, civil liberties, the UN, race relations or the international trade in oil, but I am certain all are affected significantly.

[sheffco 10]

Thanks to pheromophone, she had some idea what I was ranting about.

Helevan - well I suspect you have been buggered in the past - by hidden political motives.

I stand by what I said "America now has a "Permanent"? base in the middle east - it has control of a major part of the oil reserves - It can afford to tell the Saudi's to put their house in order, and to lean more heavily on Syria and the like.

Slowly, the west are being enlightened as to the way these countries are ruled and kept supressed.

The gutter press would do better to highlight the cases of torture and repression from that area, not to pounce on the suspicions of a "photoshop processor" as to war crimes. Don't forget, that shortly before the photo's were taken, the subjects were shooting from hiding, and prepared to commit suicide for the glorious Saddam.

As many were, dressed in civilian clothing, they have really no rights to complain.

More rants from sheffco

[Lickszz 10]

Hi Sheffco.

 

OK - The War, lets have a look.

 

Positives:

 

No Saddam in power/

Arab countrys scared of American intervention now

No more political torture by the Saddam regime on their own people now.

Foothold in the Arab world via kurds for a quick strike on perceived threats.

Total freedom to search for WMD

 

Negatives:

 

World opinion and dissent against America and Britain.

Total anarchy and lawlessness in Iraq

Possible civil war or partioning of Iraq into 3 sections leading to a hotbed of muslim fundamentalism in the south.

American protecting the Baath party in the center, the very same people they went into destroy and bring about a regime change.

Possible war with the Kurds/Turkey.

 

There is no jobs in Iraq they were all supported by the state/had free education/free food/free hospital for all. what will be the outcome now?

Will America and Britain support finacially the status quo or will the oil now rebuild the total infrastructure of the country and which of the 3 ethnic groups 4 if you count the Christians will benefit leading to more tensions.

 

As for acting against evil. It will be impossible for Bush to stop corruption and greed in foriegn countries. Which brings me to Africa, there is a whole hotbed there, but I don't expect anything will be done about that. I can't say I blame Bush for not wanting to go there.

 

The whole Arab league are despots, who like to use Israel to deflect there citizens away from there own crimes, but It's not likely this will change.

America will be powerless to stop an anti USA Shiite leader being installed in Shiite controlled Southern Iraq. what are they going to do, wage war because they do not like the leader that has been chosen. It is obviously a very diffucult situation, but it's not exactly democracy at work. Of course this is not entirely Bush`s fault.

 

Iraqi people have hardly covered themselves in glory since they were liberated. They have stolen just about everything possible in the entire country. Schools/Hospitals/Homes/Shops/National Utilities. There is basically nothing left.

 

I think it will take around 1 year before to see what the oil money does and equally important who is in charge.

 

I am sure that the Iraqis will elect there own leaders and it doesn't look like been one of the exiles.

 

They will need a Shia/Shiit/Kurd leaders.

I think all three regions will become autonomous independent of the wishes of the US Government.

 

Kurds look like they will be the only pro American part of Iraq

 

There is a real possibility of a uprising which will mean big trouble, if the Shiits aren't given full control of their oil and their only sea port. The likelyhood is that they will form a cleric led Government as this seems to be what people want anyway. Realistically there doesn't seem any feasible way that Bush adminisration could prevent this happening. The overall outcome been the Shiits becoming a fundamentalist state with shades of the Taliban. Back to where we started.

 

Which brings me to Blair, who is now in real political danger not been able to produce evidence of WMD. The snowball will gather momentum and get louder and louder.

 

Blair has stood up for Bush and basically been his spokesman, travelling the world non stop to push the plan of action, and now it is backfiring in his own country he cannot obtain support from anywhere else that means anything. The WMD issue is still the main headline each day in the news and the attacks from former cabinet ministers and journalists are coming fast and furious. It was predictable that Blair would be in serious trouble if no WMD were found because he based his whole arguement on this in order to justify the war.

 

The problem is that it was not the official opposition who were against the war, they were all for it, it was over 160 of his own party of 400 MP`S , who directly voted against him, despite all manner of threats if they did.

not to mention the others who didn't because they feared the sack etc. These are all complaining now. Add the media pressure to this also. Asnar cannot help him or support him in the UK as he is seen in the UK as just supporting the war, so spain could get Gibralter back. He was seen as politically motivated and not really intrested in Saddam or Iraq.

 

Bush is seen as a war monger, out seeking revenge and is held in low esteem as a president in the UK.

 

I am not sure, would any other UK Prime Minister have aligned themselves this close to a Bush type Administration in any other given situation?

 

As most people are aware almost all politicians look out for number 1 - gaining re-election

 

If it turns out that Blair is forced to step down because of this issue, would a similar UK leader like Gordon Brown or Michael Portillo risk losing power as well. I don't think they would.

 

For example when there was war in the Falklands the Reagan Government allied closely to the right wing Thatcher Government shy at helping the UK military and tried everything to stop the war until the very last minute. They were then on our side of course, but with no troops.

 

If Thatcher was in power today. I think there would be more wars, she was worse than Rumsfield. Would Bush allow support to a country like Zimbabwe if Thatcher had called for it. As I see it we could not gurantee Bush's support if it did nothing to affect him directly.

 

Bush has showed this to be true on lots of minor matters which directly affect the UK like the steel industry boycott of UK steel by putting tariffs way above what UK steel importers could afford. The end result, the UK steel industry has virtually gone as it receives no state support unlike the American steel industry.

 

There is also the time when the USA took the UK to the trade court in a attempt to ban the UK subsadising the third world West Indian growers in favour of a huge USA company that trades out of mexico to save on labour costs.

 

All countries are selfish UK included but with the help and support we give to America we get very little influence as a result. we do not even have a balance of trade surplass with America in over 80 billion each way.

 

Militarily we are always a support but never really needed, in every other way America treats us no better than France!

[sheffco 10]

Hi Lickzz

 

I have read your reply, and you are obviously an informed and concerned person.

Myself, I am just a silverhaired surfer. However, I have spent a long time working for Oil companies in Africa - Middle East - and Asia. Mainly Arab or Muslim Countries.

I am too old to really worry where Blair's policies will lead Britain, but from my previous postings on "War in Iraq" etc. I have tried to say that the whole scenario is led by the Oil industry.

I was working in Libya when Maggie & Reagan bombed Tripoli.

After that I worked in Tchad - - When Esso bought the government.

I went on to return to Oman - Pakistan - and Saudi.

The Oil industry is run by expatriots. American - Brits - and sundry other western specialists. We all just work for a salary, but we do observe the way that things are run.

Nepotism - - - Or a form of it is rife throughout the the world. A preference for "Racial - Colour - Tribal - Old School - Religeous or Political Parties"

Operating a labour force of 200 ethnics is a lesson in politics and the wisdom of Soloman. - - - You choose the most powerful or useful section.

Why else are most of these nations run by despots.

The despots are supported by the companies. "Shell - Esso - Oxon -Bp - and various minor ones Aquitane - Gulf - Oasis"

We the Brit's, have armed them, trained their army and police, and in some cases kept a military presence in their countries.

Unfortunately, Might is Right - - - I have seen it practised in most of the places I have worked.

 

You ask if Bush will intervene in Southern Africa?

There is no Oil there.

His enthusiasm for "Taming rogue regimes" will be fuelled by his political backers. - - - Oil Companies.

 

Just a few thoughts.

Sheffco

[Lickszz 10]

Very Interesting Sheffco and I agree to a certain extent, particularly about politcal backers. So, what happens next?

 

Your obviously a intelligent man with lots of knowledge and interesting experiences. I really wish you would post more often.

[sheffco 10]

What happens next?

 

In Britain there seems to be a policy of "Being Politicaly Correct" - Apeasement if you like.

When will the first Suicide Bomber strike, in the name of fundamentalism, happen here in Britain?

There were two who were councelled here and sent to Israel!

There are the same groups - councils - aid groups - ethnic protection society's - call them what-ever, operating here in Britain, often with state or charity funding.

There was a Tv programme the other night, alternative humour, but I agree with him - - pull up the drawbridge - stop the immigrants.

Not Racism - self protection as a nation.

Before the first world war, - - - there were the anarchists - - bombs and assassinations - - - the second world war - - there were the Natzi fanatics - destined to die for the fuhrer. All in there way believing in a better world.

Now we have the Muslims - - Promised paradise.

 

Do we really want this here?

The Mother of Parliaments.

Home of democracy and freedom.

I think not - - - We have our own problems to sort out.

Not arguements about language in schools - dress codes - religeous teaching - social services offering 16 translations - hospital treatment for foreign victims sponsored by the media.

 

I am not a supporter of the BNP, but I do think that charity begins at home.

 

My experiences overseas do lead me to think that Britain is regarded as a "Soft Touch" - - - To a pensioner, living on benefits is very hard, - - - To a third world immigrant it's a fortune. - - - Rice and Beans.

 

Get back to my original subject.

Might is right.

We have tried to give technology to the third world countries, but they have only sat back and taken the profits, and promoted the ill feeling in their own poor population.

Fundamentalists - - - They have nothing - - therefore they will destroy everything and return to a goat herding existance.

 

I will tail this off -- - the scotch is taking over.

[Lickszz 10]

Originally posted by "sheffco"

 

What happens next?

 

In Britain there seems to be a policy of "Being Politicaly Correct" - Apeasement if you like.

When will the first Suicide Bomber strike, in the name of fundamentalism, happen here in Britain?

There were two who were councelled here and sent to Israel!

There are the same groups - councils - aid groups - ethnic protection society's - call them what-ever, operating here in Britain, often with state or charity funding.

There was a Tv programme the other night, alternative humour, but I agree with him - - pull up the drawbridge - stop the immigrants.

Not Racism - self protection as a nation.

Before the first world war, - - - there were the anarchists - - bombs and assassinations - - - the second world war - - there were the Natzi fanatics - destined to die for the fuhrer. All in there way believing in a better world.

Now we have the Muslims - - Promised paradise.

 

Do we really want this here?

The Mother of Parliaments.

Home of democracy and freedom.

I think not - - - We have our own problems to sort out.

Not arguements about language in schools - dress codes - religeous teaching - social services offering 16 translations - hospital treatment for foreign victims sponsored by the media.

 

I am not a supporter of the BNP, but I do think that charity begins at home.

 

My experiences overseas do lead me to think that Britain is regarded as a "Soft Touch" - - - To a pensioner, living on benefits is very hard, - - - To a third world immigrant it's a fortune. - - - Rice and Beans.

 

Get back to my original subject.

Might is right.

We have tried to give technology to the third world countries, but they have only sat back and taken the profits, and promoted the ill feeling in their own poor population.

Fundamentalists - - - They have nothing - - therefore they will destroy everything and return to a goat herding existance.

 

I will tail this off -- - the scotch is taking over.

 

Many places within Europe are already breeding/recruiting stables for Fundamentalists. I agree, Britain is a soft touch. Did you read my post on oil for food program? I was trying to clarify a few reasons why France/Germans/Russia wanted no part of the Iraq invasion.