I'm No Racist by- Tory MP

[James7x7]

Is there any evidence to back this up? Wouldn't have thought that these days judges/magistrates could get away with this...

 

I was wondering when someone was going to say that. Are you not capable of doing a little independent research? It's easy with google.

 

The evidence is well documented. Have a look at the Home Office publication "Race and the Criminal Justice System: An overview to the complete statistics 2004-05". pdf here

[Stormy]

I was wondering when someone was going to say that. Are you not capable of doing a little independent research? It's easy with google.

 

The evidence is well documented. Have a look at the Home Office publication "Race and the Criminal Justice System: An overview to the complete statistics 2004-05". pdf here

 

Are you not capable of attatching a link in the first place to save others a little effort? Its your argument, not mine, therefore you put the effort in, not me.

[James7x7]

Are you not capable of attatching a link in the first place to save others a little effort? Its your argument, not mine, therefore you put the effort in, not me.

 

You're welcome! Strangely enough, I don't maintain an index of home office statistics on my computer for easy reference. The least you could do is thank me for putting in the effort to find a link for you rather than complaining I didn't do it in the first place.

[LordChaverly]

Halibut is not totally wrong. A number of factors come into play in this debate. The interactions between socio-economic status, ethnicity, educational attainment and gender, to which other posters have alluded are all important However, as I pointed out in an earlier post, some ethnic minority groups are more likely to be given a custodial sentence if convicted of a crime than white criminals. There may be some rational reasons for this, but racial prejudice may also be a relevent factor. Unfortunately, it's one that is not easy to measure.

 

The problem with bald statistics is that they frequently give rise to bald inferences. For example, the statement about custodial sentences above is frequently used to buttress the argument that judges are biased against ethnic minorities (just as the 'stop and search' statistics are used to buttress a similar argument against the police). Unless we have data relating to the type of crimes committed, and unless we had information about the previous criminal records of defendants, it is impermissable in my view to attribute these differences to 'racial prejudice'. For example, it is well known that young black males account for a disproportionately high percentage of violent street robberies, which are likely to result in custodial sentences. Repeat offenders are also likely to receive custodial sentences. The same applies to 'stop and search'. The police are likely to do this in response to reports of street robberies, or in response to street drug dealing, in both of which there is evidence that certain ethnic groups appear to be disproportionately represented.

[James7x7]

The problem with bald statistics is that they frequently give rise to bald inferences. For example, the statement about custodial sentences above is frequently used to buttress the argument that judges are biased against ethnic minorities (just as the 'stop and search' statistics are used to buttress a similar argument against the police). Unless we have data relating to the type of crimes committed, and unless we had information about the previous criminal records of defendants, it is impermissable in my view to attribute these differences to 'racial prejudice'. For example, it is well known that young black males account for a disproportionately high percentage of violent street robberies, which are likely to result in custodial sentences. Repeat offenders are also likely to receive custodial sentences. The same applies to 'stop and search'. The police are likely to do this in response to reports of street robberies, or in response to street drug dealing, in both of which there is evidence that certain ethnic groups appear to be disproportionately represented.

 

I don't think we're in disagreement here. I did not state that the disproportionate use of custodial sentences was evidence that judges are biased against ethnic minorities. While the evidence is broken down by types of crime committed (see the home office publication I linked to), I am not aware of any figures breaking it down by previous criminal record.

 

There may be other factors currently not measured that judges rationally take into account when sentencing that explain part of, if not all the difference. That said, it is not unreasonable to hypothesise that part of the reason for the differential is racial prejudice. I'm not sure how one would go about testing this hypothesis. It cannot proved by the current evidence, but it cannot be disproved either.

 

Taking off my stats hat, I can't believe that not a single judge is just a little bit racist and that s/he let's this prejudice interfere with his/her judgement just an incie wincie bit.

[CockneyMafia]

I think we are all inherently racist to a degree. My problem is I am prejudiced, rather than racist.

 

Its not the skin colour for me, its the whole 'Gangsta / Trenchtown' image that so many inner city kids try to adopt, and the culture of apathy they embroil themselves in.

 

Put it this way. If I was on jury duty, and two of the aforementioned characters from the London Borough of Innit were on trial for a petty theft, or an attempted wounding, I wouldn't even bother listening to the evidence.

 

No word of a lie blood.

[Stormy]

The least you could do is thank me for putting in the effort to find a link for you rather than complaining I didn't do it in the first place.

 

Thankyou. If you quit using patronising terms such as "are you not capable of" when I clearly am, as I am sat in front of a computer, you'll get another thankyou as well. Thankyou.