Was Labour wrong on foxhunting?

[angle20 10]

On the halal/kosher thread many of the leftist contributors seem to be airily dismissive of animal welfare considerations. This got me the thnking about the Labour party's stance on foxhunting.

 

I support the ban on foxhunting because of the gratuitous nature of the cruelty involved. A point made by pro-foxhunting people, however, is that given that there is a need to control the fox population - which I would accept - the alternative method of shooting may sometimes result in a fox being wounded and escaping to suffer a slow death from a gunshot wound. There are also arguments concerning the employment which hunting brings to some rural locations.

 

At one point it looked as if the government was trying to wriggle out of the pledge it had made to ban foxhunting. This seemed to cause considerable consternation amongst Labour backbenchers and eventually the legislation was passed (though whether it has really been enforced is another matter).

 

Some cynics suggested that the real reason Labour politicians wanted to ban foxhunting had little to do with animal welfare but was in order to take a swipe at toffs and country folk. I'm now thinking that these cynics may be right and that leftist/Labour people do not have a coherent moral position on animal welfare.

[Alex C. 10]

On the Halal topic, I may have seemed ignorant about animal cruelty, but thats because meat eating is something your never going to stop. Either way, an animal suffers and dies.

 

On the other hand, foxhunting is primarily a sport so that people can shoot and kill animals for fun.

 

Thats my view anyway

[artisan 10]

In what way has animal welfare got anything to do with being left wing.

That is the preserve of fluffy pinkoes.

The left wing is concerned with human welfare. Fox hunting is not the action of a person with a stable mentality, the fox is just a replacement for a human being in the minds of those doing the chasing.

If the only reason for banning it was to offend the fools who take part in it, then that is all it needs for me to support banning it.

Foxes are neither here nor there, they are animals, whether they live or die is no concern of ours.

The important thing is that the hooray henries of the world have had their collective noses put out of joint.

[King Rat 10]

I think the main reason why the fox hunt ban was such a big issue was mainly because the middle & upper class wasn't used to getting their own way, the very same people would be the first to condem football hooliganism & some of the protesters behaved in the same way as a 'typical working class protester' would do.

[rubydazzler 11]

On the halal/kosher thread many of the leftist contributors seem to be airily dismissive of animal welfare considerations. This got me the thnking about the Labour party's stance on foxhunting.

 

Some cynics suggested that the real reason Labour politicians wanted to ban foxhunting had little to do with animal welfare but was in order to take a swipe at toffs and country folk. I'm now thinking that these cynics may be right and that leftist/Labour people do not have a coherent moral position on animal welfare.

 

I think it might have been a little bit of both if they were honest. My attitude was always that not only was it hard on the fox, it also had a brutalising effect on the followers and as such has no place in our modern society.

 

I think the meat issue and the apparent non concern about animal welfare on that thread was merely to do with the fact that it was a religious issue and also specifically a Muslim religious issue. There is a certain group in society, and especially on this Forum, that will overturn any previously held principle they may have espoused to argue that Islam is ok by us lol.

 

In what way has animal welfare got anything to do with being left wing. That is the preserve of fluffy pinkoes. The left wing is concerned with human welfare. Fox hunting is not the action of a person with a stable mentality, the fox is just a replacement for a human being in the minds of those doing the chasing. If the only reason for banning it was to offend the fools who take part in it, then that is all it needs for me to support banning it. Foxes are neither here nor there, they are animals, whether they live or die is no concern of ours. The important thing is that the hooray henries of the world have had their collective noses put out of joint.

 

That's such an uncaring attitude about other living creatures. You might as well say you don't care whether your dog or cat lives or dies, as it's just an animal. I'm sure you don't mean it really and you're just trying to stir things up.

 

The hooray henry aspect of it wasn't something I ever thought about. Lots of country people of all ages and condtions follow the Hunt so you can't say it's the preserve of the upper class. Equally many country dwellers of all ages and conditions don't support the Hunt. It's custom and attitude, not class, that determines such things.

 

Edit: I actually neglected to answer the question ... my answer is Yes they were wrong, they advanced legislation which they must have known was unworkable in practice, in return for donations to their election funds. Whilst I would like to see the actual hunting animals with dogs and horses come to an end, I don't think the legislation as we have it now was ever going to be a practical solution.

[MickeyBarnes 10]

The fox, although cute is a very cruel animal itself.

 

If a fox gets into a chicken coup, it will kill all the chickens and hens, far in excess of what it could eat. By killing and controlling one fox, you are very likely to save the lives of other animals. More importantly, animals which the base of peoples livelyhoods.

 

people enjoy hunting, and it is a traditional British past-time, and i think they shouldn't have stopped it.

 

put humans first.

 

(C'mon!! i really doubt that fox hunters REALLY dream of chasing people??)

[VARB 10]

Right or wrong it's another labour law thats not working

I'm sure the gentlemen and ladies on the horses in Apperknowle on Friday were enjoying a days hunting

[Fareast 10]

I don't think the argument should be so much about the wrongs and rights of fox-hunting, per se, but how much parliamentary time, effort and money went into banning it.

 

There are millions of living things killed each week in the U.K. and millions more animals reared for our benefit, in, shall we say, less than ideal environments. There are social and political problems, too, in the U.K. that are crying out for open discussion, preferably in the most important discussion arena in our country, the House of Commons.

 

Taking into account the number of foxes killed by hunters per annum and the alternatives to it, in order to keep the fox population stable, it seemed ludicrous to spend a lot of time hand-wringing over the activity.

 

I'm sure if "toffs" were seen helping old ladies to cross busy roads, regularly, then Labour would ban that too.

[plekhanov 10]

On the halal/kosher thread many of the leftist contributors seem to be airily dismissive of animal welfare considerations.

Please do explain how a halal chicken dinner is in any meaningful sense worse in terms of animal welfare than a non halal turkey dinner.

 

This got me the thnking about the Labour party's stance on foxhunting.

 

I support the ban on foxhunting because of the gratuitous nature of the cruelty involved. A point made by pro-foxhunting people, however, is that given that there is a need to control the fox population - which I would accept - the alternative method of shooting may sometimes result in a fox being wounded and escaping to suffer a slow death from a gunshot wound. There are also arguments concerning the employment which hunting brings to some rural locations.

 

At one point it looked as if the government was trying to wriggle out of the pledge it had made to ban foxhunting. This seemed to cause considerable consternation amongst Labour backbenchers and eventually the legislation was passed (though whether it has really been enforced is another matter).

 

Some cynics suggested that the real reason Labour politicians wanted to ban foxhunting had little to do with animal welfare but was in order to take a swipe at toffs and country folk. I'm now thinking that these cynics may be right and that leftist/Labour people do not have a coherent moral position on animal welfare.

Labour don't have a coherent moral position on animal welfare but then again neither do you, a hunted fox suffers far less than a factory farmed animal as such it's absurd that people feel they have the moral authority to call for the criminalisation of fox hunting whilst actively supporting factory farming by buying and consuming meat.

 

People may claim that fox hunting is worse as it causes animal suffering for human pleasure thing is so does meat eating. Most people can live perfectly healthily on a vegetarian diet they eat meat because they like to, because it’s pleasurable, not because they need to and significantly factory farmed animals suffer far more in their pitiable lives than hunted foxes.

 

Labour were certainly wrong to criminalise fox hunting and showed their distain for liberty in doing so and demonstrated an unpleasant level of spite in many of their MPs. What’s more they put a wholly unnecessary and unworkable law onto the books greatly reducing many citizens respect for the law and needlessly burdening the police. The law is too important to be toyed with as a political gimmick something labour seem all too willing to do as they are currently with yet more ‘anti-terror’ legislation.

[artisan 10]

Yes rubydazzler, I was just trying to make the pulse beat a little faster, but when all is said and done, it is only an animal. Having said that, it deserves its place on this planet more than the likes of Brian ferry's son.

 

I have mixed feelings on this. They seem to spend a hell of a lot of time and money on killing these creatures.

The ones they hunt are not wild foxes anyway, they are specially bred, as there are so few true wild foxes left now that it would be hard to find one.

I would imagine that any self respecting wild animal would keep well clear of a modern poultry farm.

The idea of chickens scratching in the barnyard are a myth. They are industrial scale operations, with no place for foxes.

 

MickeyBarnes

Regarding the idea that they get involved in the chase imagining it is a man they are chasing, I do believe that. I know I would.

What kind of a cowardly runt chases mob handed on horseback over miles of foields after something not much bigger than next doors tomcat (and more harmless to boot)

Many of these people can trace their history back to the great warriors of the past, yet all they can do is pretend they are indulging in a cavalry charge, and at the end kill a fox. By God. It makes me proud to be English, such heroics.

[rubydazzler 11]

Everyone who lives in or near hunting country knows that vixens were "looked after" to make sure they bred, easy supply of food to encourage them to stay in the area and watched over when they had cubs, to make sure they had a good supply for both cubbing and hunting.

 

(This post now appears to be a total non sequitar as it's obviously been "doctored" by Titian. The post which prompted this response seems to have been removed, presumably by Titian. But was insulting to another Forumer and I remarked on this fact. No problem, just setting the record straight)

[royjames 10]

As to the topic, I think the ban is correct we cant say were a civilised country and at the same time allow this barbaric activity to continue,how would the hunters feel if they were being chased by a pack of dogs?

This is one of those old english customs that deserves to be consigned to the history books.