Fingerprinting in pubs

[Darbees]

Well obviously you're arguing for the sake of it.

You're arguing the point because you want people to have their civil liberties reduced in order to make your job easier. I don't agree with that and I've told you why. I am a law abiding, non trouble causing citizen btw and the remark about friends going in and leaving someone behind was hypothetical. "End of" is the expression you will no doubt be using when refusing entry to people who protest about it.

[DaBouncer]

Again you haven't read my posts correctly otherwise you'd have known I was an ex doorman (i.e. no longer in the industry).

This is where that bit about "an informed opinion" comes in play

 

Therefore it wont make anything of mine easier (job or otherwise), I too am a citizen of the city and nothing more and at the mercy of said technology and I don't want civil liberties reduced but at least I can argue my point and understand all the fact before wading in uninformed.

 

The defence rests

[Darbees]

Again you haven't read my posts correctly otherwise you'd have known I was an ex doorman (i.e. no longer in the industry).

This is where that bit about "an informed opinion" comes in play

 

Therefore it wont make anything of mine easier (job or otherwise), I too am a citizen of the city and nothing more and at the mercy of said technology and I don't want civil liberties reduced but at least I can argue my point and understand all the fact before wading in uninformed.

 

The defence rests

That's not really relevant, it's just an excuse to be rude to me as people tend to do when losing the argument but I won't bite in case you still retain some doorman mentality. The opinions you expressed are still the same regardless of your current occupation.

[Cyclone]

The false positives issue is still a real concern though.

If the system were adopted and your prints happened to be similar to one on the system you might find that 75% of the time you wouldn't be let in.

 

It may be only 1/100 overall, but if you're that 1 more often than not you're going to be pretty unhappy.

[DaBouncer]

How am I losing an argument.

It's a debate as to whether it would serve the public and be in their interest.

I have demonstrated it's benefits but clearly you don't seem to grasp the concept becuase you're afraid of some higher authority identifying you wrong and being barred from a venue.

 

This seems to stem from incident in the past with regards to your personal records held on police systems that you keep bringing up.

Well that's not our fault and if you feel aggrieved you should take it up with the police service.

 

Whether you like it or not this system IS going to be trialed in sheffield and I for one feel (in my informed opinion) that it will help the security industry and make venues safer for the public which (again in my informed opinion) can only be a good thing.

 

It's highly impracticle (if not impossible) for these systems to take your finger prints at the doors and even still they're worthless without ID (such as personal information to back it up). So I fail to see where civil liberties other than stopping the liberties of trouble makers comes into this.

 

Oh and thanks for the doorstaff trait generalisation... just shows how small minded you are really.

 

And seems as you enjoying trying to get the last word.. feel free.. here's your chance

[buck]

There is a plus side to universal fingerprinting and DNA sampling. Both can be important in ensuring innocence as well as guilt. Many innocent men are now back walking the streets who were falsely imprisoned for rape and murder, and many pedophiles are behind bars. Like the man says, why be worried about being fingerprinted if you have nothing to hide. We impose it on you visitors to protect our interest. If you don't like it you're quite welcome to stay home.

[Cyclone]

There is a plus side to universal fingerprinting and DNA sampling. Both can be important in ensuring innocence as well as guilt. Many innocent men are now back walking the streets who were falsely imprisoned for rape and murder, and many pedophiles are behind bars. Like the man says, why be worried about being fingerprinted if you have nothing to hide. We impose it on you visitors to protect our interest. If you don't like it you're quite welcome to stay home.

 

Both can be misused, both can be misinterpreted and put the wrong person in jail.

I don't like the fact that you took a fingerprint when I came to visit, but since I probably won't be back for a good long whilst I decided it was acceptable.

[Titian]

Mod Note: Right ladies, lets put the handbags down and walk away shall we?

[Magilla]

Again it doesn't you're obviously seeing further into this than the news story indicates. Maybe it's just the "one small step at a time" and maybe not.

 

Maybe the local authorities will pass my information on to a NATIONAL database... maybe they wont.

 

They will, even being a victim of a crime the police take DNA/fingerprints and store them on the national databse.

 

Again, I have done nothing wrong and therefore worry about it less.

 

I think you'll find that if there's a false positive of your fingerprint at the scene of a crime, "I have done nothing wrong" will not help you in anyway shape or form.

 

There was a program on C4 recently showing several people, all who were innocent of anything but had their fingerprints on the national database (victims of previous crimes). They were subsequently charged with crimes they had had nothing to do with based on these fingerprints.

 

One 15 year old boy was handcuffed and dragged from his bed at 5am because they suspected he'd been involved in mail fraud. Their proof was that the mail they'd found dumped in a ditch had his fingerprints all over it. After 13 hours interrogation, they basically said "We know you're guilty, we have your fingerprints" and offered him a caution if he admitted guilt.

It was only when his brief asked to see the evidence did anyone realise the fingerprints were on a letter to his granny he'd posted two days before and had been part of the theft!

They police admitted they'd never bothered looking for anyone else, because they assumed this kid was guilty merely by virtue of his details being on the database. Disgusting!

 

This whole fingerprint/database thing is basically an excuse for the police to walk into anyones house at anytime and nosey into their business. They merely have to say they've got your fingerprint and you're presumed guilty long before you get to court and a jury! It's already being abused on a daily basis.

[Magilla]

This will only be if you've kicked off a fight in a venue, arrested and either given a public order offence or charged with a crime by the police. Then THEY will add you to the database.

 

Not so, if you are involved in any violent crime that involves the police (even as a victim) your fingerprints and DNA are taken and added to the database.

 

How does the system know which people are likely to cause trouble in bars and which aren't? It doesn't. Chances are if you allow your fingerprint to be taken and used in such a frivolous manner, you will regret it in the end.